How not to share your opinion on the forum?

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Altaïr

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#1
That's all. We think all the forum should know about Zeeray13 's opinion.

Note: This thread was initially posted under the title "Zeeray13 thinks there are too many Falcon 9 in the blueprint download section!" in the blueprint download section. That was done after a debatable (at least) action from Zeeray13 that consisted in messing with the forum itself (with the thread order to be precise) to promote his personal opinion. That thread was to be understood as a joke that consisted in pushing his logic to the limit to show how absurd it was. I have to end the joke itself, but this discussion remains open. Feel free to share your opinion, and above all, respect eachother :)
Note 2
: Thread finally locked due to Zeeray13's behaviour (I usually don't name and shame, but he is clearly the only responsible there).
 
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Marmilo

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#2
Zeeray13 thinks there are too many Falcon 9 in the blueprint download section!
Not only him. I definitely agree. And its not only Falcon 9's. It's also FH, Delta IV Heavy, Electron and all those trending rockets.
 

SFSAbhishek

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#3
But what's th problem with it, everyone has the right to share their creation.
And even if we said that we could not have these many Falcon 9s how are you going to select those that we need.
By giving a time limit or last date till submit or
By allowing only a few people to select top Falcon 9 to be added in the blueprint download section.
 

Mooncrasher

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#4
But what's th problem with it, everyone has the right to share their creation.
And even if we said that we could not have these many Falcon 9s how are you going to select those that we need.
By giving a time limit or last date till submit or
By allowing only a few people to select top Falcon 9 to be added in the blueprint download section.
Maybe we can get Zeeray to vet every creation.
 

Zeeray13

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#5
But what's th problem with it, everyone has the right to share their creation.
And even if we said that we could not have these many Falcon 9s how are you going to select those that we need.
By giving a time limit or last date till submit or
By allowing only a few people to select top Falcon 9 to be added in the blueprint download section.
yes everyone does the problem is the severe lack of originality. I get those rockets are cool and historical, but a big but, is when you see 500 bad ones and maybe 1 or 2 good one that are 100% accurate then there is a problem. Like ive said before and will say again I rather have something creative and original than the same old crap that is only half way done.
 

SFSAbhishek

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#7
yes everyone does the problem is the severe lack of originality. I get those rockets are cool and historical, but a big but, is when you see 500 bad ones and maybe 1 or 2 good one that are 100% accurate then there is a problem. Like ive said before and will say again I rather have something creative and original than the same old crap that is only half way done.
So do you have any solution for it.
 

Zeeray13

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#8
So do you have any solution for it.
yes its simple. critic the hell out of everything until they get sick of making recreations or they get really good either way its a win. we get very good and accurate recreations or we get original builds. Also remember to reward creativity with compliments and be nicer about suggesting things. Bam you train people like you would a kid by rewarding good behavior and punishing bad.
 

Mooncrasher

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#9
yes its simple. critic the hell out of everything until they leave the community or they get really good either way its a win. we get very good and accurate recreations or we get original builds. Also remember to reward creativity with compliments and be nicer about suggesting things. Bam you train people like you would a kid by rewarding good behavior and punishing bad.
FTFY? Because that's what will happen.
 

Altaïr

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#10
That thread was meant as a joke, but I see this is really took in serious.

Note that I don't especially disagree with your opinion, just with the way you advertise it.

However...
yes its simple. critic the hell out of everything until they get sick of making recreations or they get really good either way its a win. we get very good and accurate recreations or we get original builds. Also remember to reward creativity with compliments and be nicer about suggesting things. Bam you train people like you would a kid by rewarding good behavior and punishing bad.
Zeeray13, if you don't like a rocket recreation, this is your right, but this doesn't justify being rude (see what you posted about the Delta IV heavy). This is not what I call constructive feedback. Help people to improve if you want, this will be welcome, but respect them please. I'm not kidding, remember we all started as beginners.
You have the right to dislike other builds, but people also have the right to post their creations. There will be no censorship here.
 

JSP

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#11
i like that there are loads of Falcons on the BP downloads
other than the saturn V the falcon 9 is very iconic and easy to build
we should compare them all to see which is the best one
 

Horus Lupercal

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#12
i like that there are loads of Falcons on the BP downloads
other than the saturn V the falcon 9 is very iconic and easy to build
we should compare them all to see which is the best one
I dunno man, making a tall, slim, de-orbitable rocket is easy. Making an actual replica of an F9 that can do proper F9 things like be re-conditioned and re-used is pretty damn hard.
Same with any rocket.
Like, I agree and disagree with Zeeray. It is getting boring looking at a new post in forum 'oh look, a new build. Wait, it's another F9. Apparently.'
Especially when they look less like F9/D4H etc and more like what a D4H would look like if you'd never actually seen a D4H before.
And there's no need for them to be a D4H or a Falcon 9. If you've made a white, 2 stage, boosted, re-useable rocket system, it doesn't need to be a Falcon Heavy. Because now you've made a replica and direct comparisons will be drawn, same as if you built a kit car and called it a Lancia Stratos.
Call it an Echo Four Large or a Budgie 3 or something, that's what I've done with the Uranus rocket series that totally isn't a Saturn V rip off in any way or form.
Even though it shares engine set up, paint styles, shape, stage numbers, payload mass and stage number to orbit and has IB / MLV versions, lifts from 39A with the same camera angles with a USA running down the side, because I've not called it a Saturn, no one can say anything that it's too short/narrow/powerful/black finned etc.

However.
It's peoples choices what they make, post and share. It's a public forum. And I know I'm as guilty as anyone of facepalming when someone creates a rocket that won't even lift off the ground and making suggestions when they've not been asked for.
And as someone pointed out a few weeks ago, there is becoming a shift towards harder grades of toxicity here. Again, I'm guilty of extreme sarcasm and have a pre-set response of 'have you tried the search function at any point' in my clipboard whenever a bone and often repeated question comes up and I love testing debunking a bullshit claim or two.
At least when I've made a meme about a ridiculously high TWR, I'll suggest an actual engine system that'll work afterwards and do a lot of work in the background helping people out.
I'm not alone in that, either. I still believe this place is the best location for actual, real, genuine help. Fuck, I still PM people looking for advice and clarity.
But now we're going into realms of making videos about peoples work.
I could make a video parodying the bewildering array of a certain class of 3 engined, re-useable light/medium launch rockets whose name ends in -erlin.
It'd be funny, but it wouldn't be fair. Cos Zeeray can build whatever he likes.
In the same way I know a few people could rinse me for posts like this ^^.

Must be breakfast time, Horus is making waffles again.

Anyway, I've noticed it, and I'm gonna stop. If a post is awesome (IPR/ISS, I'm looking at you) then I'll say so (maybe I'll even put a like in). If it's ok or meh or even turd, then that's fine. I'm only going to add my 10p if there's something missing like a screenshot, but if the TWR is 4 or it's the 25th Crew Dragon module this week, then meh. It's his rocket and I'll keep out of it unless advice is asked for, and then I'll do what I usually do and suggest getting rid of all the engines and adding more fuel.
But if it's utter bullshit claims from someone who should know better, actively trying to deceive people then it's spreadsheet time bitches.
Or girls und fucking panzer and I've had a bottle of port.
 

Blazer Ayanami

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#13
yes its simple. critic the hell out of everything until they get sick of making recreations or they get really good either way its a win. we get very good and accurate recreations or we get original builds. Also remember to reward creativity with compliments and be nicer about suggesting things. Bam you train people like you would a kid by rewarding good behavior and punishing bad.
Yeah, that's not gonna work. Because:

1)- No offense but, random people on the Internet don't care about another random guy on the Internet (Zeeray 13)'s opinión.

2)- Such technique actually doesn't works. I've tried all sorts of resources, including this one, to make you write with commas, and you see the result on the post I'm quoting. In fact, this could bring the opposite effect.
 

Blazer Ayanami

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#14
Yeah, that's not gonna work. Because:

1)- No offense but, random people on the Internet don't care about another random guy on the Internet (Zeeray 13)'s opinión.

2)- Such technique actually doesn't works. I've tried all sorts of resources, including this one, to make you write with commas, and you see the result on the post I'm quoting. In fact, this could bring the opposite effect.
That being said, the whole point of this thread is ridiculous, no one, not even the mods, or the admins, and of course, not even a random guy's opinion, or the whole forum's opinion can stop people from making rocket replicas.
 

Earl

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#15
hey everyone, post your falcon 9 designs here!!

But seriously, I think it should be ok to post falcon 9 designs as long as they have something unique about them. If it's just another random one, don't post it. But if it is unique I think it should be ok.
 

Zeeray13

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#16
Never said it wasn't ok I'm saying we should have very high standards for recreations of any sort. To promote more original builds that can't be judged the same way.
 

Horus Lupercal

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#17
But seriously, I think it should be ok to post falcon 9 designs as long as they have something unique about them. If it's just another random one, don't post it. But if it is unique I think it should be ok.
What would you allow as unique about another F9 build? There's only a certain number of ways you can make a thing when you're copying an actual thing. You can't make it taller or longer or more re-usable.
Ha, unless (and here's something I've not seen in a long time) someone makes an actual re-usable F9. In fact, someone needs to make this.

we should have very high standards for recreations of any sort.
We do. But what we used to do was say 'that make it 0.5m metre wider, taper it towards the end using fairings and consider using these engines', or words to that effect. Hell, even Cosmo (after calling something shit) would finish off with some actual changes.
And even that was only in the International Mission section if someone was submitting a build.
 

Altaïr

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#18
Ok guys, I have to end this joke, I didn't really mean to leave such a thread pinned in the blueprint download section anyway. I've updated the first post for more explanations about the context, what originally happened and so on.

However, if you have some ideas about how we could make the blueprint download section better, feel free to debate and to share them.

My opinion on this: I agree that it's not pleasant to browse that section and to find tons of similar models, some of them very good, some of them "not so good".
But this is a space of freedom, and people also have the right to post their creations.

I don't know personally the ideal solution to this, but I already tried to solve a similar problem in the challenge section, by posting some guidelines. Since then, we've still had a ton of "Grand Tour", "Dyson sphere" or any other crazy challenges that nobody will ever do, including the author himself. In a word, this is a failure.

Feel free to debate about it if you want, but please remember that even people that post "bad rockets" deserve a minimum of respect, and that nobody should decide unilateraly how the forum should work.
 

Altaïr

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#21
Never said no one didn't.
Maybe I should remember you that you said this though:
yes its simple. critic the hell out of everything until they get sick of making recreations or they get really good
And maybe I should also remember you that you posted a rude reaction that I had to delete in the last Delta IV thread.

When I say that people have the right to post, it also means they have the right to post without being criticized harshly.

By the way we've already had that debate, don't restart it please. Stop being in bad faith, and if you have something to propose to make the situation better, please do, but stop derailing that thread.
 
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Blazer Ayanami

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#22
Never said no one didn't.
Yes you did. You literally said that. Here:
critic the hell out of everything until they get sick of making recreations
Edit: Wait, Altaïr said it first, sorry.

Also, my final opinion (If anyone actually cares): like Altaïr also said, people has the right to post whatever they want as long as it doesn't breaks the rules. Posting good and bad stuff is normal in the Internet. Internet is just too big to be used only by great players, Hence why this will continue happening even If you tell them they are not good, and that they should stop. So, you wanna know the best way to not see F9/D4H recreations? Delete your account and leave the forums forever. In fact, leave the Internet forever.
 
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Zeeray13

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#23
Yes you did. You literally said that. Here:

Edit: Wait, Altaïr said it first, sorry.

Also, my final opinion (If anyone actually cares): like Altaïr also said, people has the right to post whatever they want as long as it doesn't breaks the rules. Posting good and bad stuff is normal in the Internet. Internet is just too big to be used only by great players, Hence why this will continue happening even If you tell them they are not good, and that they should stop. So, you wanna know the best way to not see F9/D4H recreations? Delete your account and leave the forums forever. In fact, leave the Internet forever.
Saying making someone sick of making something is far different from saying that they don't have a right to make it so I fail to see how you connected those two. Also critiquing the hell out of someone isn't the same as calling them bad or telling them to stop. It's telling them what needs to be done to be better. Last part, oh what about making options? You clearly are set on one solution and a extreme one at that. There are ways of being respectful and helpful and convincing others of a way that can lead them into a better tomorrow, but clearly you would rather want me to leave.
 
#24
Maybe reserve the term “realistic” for locked competition threads and tone down the criticism of some poor noob’s first hack at a falcon

On the bright side, with the drag fixed we should be able to cut the crap in half at least, trying to explain to every new guy that his rocket don’t work in atmosphere is history
 

Zeeray13

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#25
Maybe reserve the term “realistic” for locked competition threads and tone down the criticism of some poor noob’s first hack at a falcon

On the bright side, with the drag fixed we should be able to cut the crap in half at least, trying to explain to every new guy that his rocket don’t work in atmosphere is history
With that comes every noob making ion to orbit vehicles now.
 
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