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Horus Lupercal

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The Challenger 2 on the other hand has British armor and guns.
This isn't going to age well.

The Challenger III (basically a Challenger II with a new turret) will have the same german gun as the Americans and pretty much everyone else in NATO and will be obsolete before it enters service.

Because we can't have everything can we.


Looks like the 2000s to me. I'd complain if my game looked like it was shot in 720p
 

VibeChecker

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This isn't going to age well.

The Challenger III (basically a Challenger II with a new turret) will have the same german gun as the Americans and pretty much everyone else in NATO and will be obsolete before it enters service.

Because we can't have everything can we.




Looks like the 2000s to me. I'd complain if my game looked like it was shot in 720p
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To be fair, the Challenger III (with a Trophy APS) is going to BTFO T-90s and possibly even T-14 Armatas.
 

Horus Lupercal

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View attachment 68178
To be fair, the Challenger III (with a Trophy APS) is going to BTFO T-90s and possibly even T-14 Armatas.

It would've, if they'd have gone with 130mm autoloader that rheinmetall designed specifically for challenger III. But why would you want 50% extra firepower to deal with future threats when you can stick with the old weapon.

Two reasons.
1. Dropping the crew from 4 to 3 because of the autoloader would mean an excuse to further cut manning numbers in the Royal Armoured Corps.
2. The entire reason for switching from the British rifled 120mm to the German 120 smoothbore is so we can 'borrow' American ammunition. If we're the only nation using 130mm ammo, it means we have to continue paying for our own.
And we're too busy throwing money at the SPIB to do that.


Also, Trophy is a fantastic system and far superior to Shtora, but won't (yet) save anyone from the T-14s 125mm gun.

That's what pisses me off with how we design tanks these days. We almost make the best tank, and then skimp on a piece of tech or whatever as a cost saving and fuck the whole thing up.
 

VibeChecker

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It would've, if they'd have gone with 130mm autoloader that rheinmetall designed specifically for challenger III. But why would you want 50% extra firepower to deal with future threats when you can stick with the old weapon.

Two reasons.
1. Dropping the crew from 4 to 3 because of the autoloader would mean an excuse to further cut manning numbers in the Royal Armoured Corps.
2. The entire reason for switching from the British rifled 120mm to the German 120 smoothbore is so we can 'borrow' American ammunition. If we're the only nation using 130mm ammo, it means we have to continue paying for our own.
And we're too busy throwing money at the SPIB to do that.


Also, Trophy is a fantastic system and far superior to Shtora, but won't (yet) save anyone from the T-14s 125mm gun.

That's what pisses me off with how we design tanks these days. We almost make the best tank, and then skimp on a piece of tech or whatever as a cost saving and fuck the whole thing up.
Apparently, the Israelis are designing a version of the Trophy that can beat KE rounds. I doubt it will be for export to Western countries for another few years and it will be extremely expensive to mount. So it may not end up in British hands for a while.
Of course, if the US were still controlled by NeoCons and any unlikely hypothetical war with a nation (let's say, some third-world country that had T-14s for no reason at all) erupted, I bet the US-Controlled Coalition would put all the Challenger Tanks in the riskiest jobs.
After the war, American planners will mention 75% of the tank casualties were British and that obviously means that Challenger Tanks are inferior when they were just more exposed to T-14 fire.
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I still believe Challengers are practically equivalent to Abrams and performance is based off of amount of training provided to crews and aptitude of brass. For instance, Abrams are being destroyed in Yemen because the Saudis are retarded enough to send Abrams by themselves without ANY infantry support.
 

Horus Lupercal

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Apparently, the Israelis are designing a version of the Trophy that can beat KE rounds
The Armata apparently already has such a system. However, no one has seen it in action, the Russians have never explained or demo'd it so as far as the west is concerned it's about as real a claim as Chickens ultra heavy launch vehicles.


I doubt it will be for export to Western countries for another few years and it will be extremely expensive to mount. So it may not end up in British hands for a while.
I think the main time delay will be that Rafael will time its completion with whenever the Israelis get around to upgrading or replacing Merkava. They're already on about making it so that it solely protected by Trophy, including removing all the armour from it because its so effective. And they're already nearly a million dollars a system.


I bet the US-Controlled Coalition would put all the Challenger Tanks in the riskiest jobs.
Politics aside, it'd be rather difficult forcing the UK to lead any charge. We just don't have the numbers and any peer-peer conflict involving any state with MBTs would require the US to do much of the heavy lifting.



still believe Challengers are practically equivalent to Abrams and performance is based off of amount of training provided to crews and aptitude of brass. For instance, Abrams are being destroyed in Yemen because the Saudis are retarded enough to send Abrams by themselves without ANY infantry support
Not just the Yemenis. The Iraqis (because they're lazy as fuck) also managed to make a right mess of defending Iraq against Daesh, despite having M1 Abrams they'd acquired from the US.
Same happened in Syria, where the Russians lent a load of T-80 and -90 to the regime and they thought they were invulnerable.
Only to discover that whilst Shtora is good against active guided ATGMs like Jav, it doesn't work against optical systems like TOW and Daesh / YPG had lots of TOW to go around.

The current small conflicts have really opened up a can of worms in regards to the perceived invulnerable MBTs and as you say, there is no substitute to good training, good tactics and not being lazy bastards.

Personally though, I'd go with Leopard as the best tank in NATO at the moment.
 

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And sadly I still dont own one.