Messing Around With Deadly Forces (Docking Ports),

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Sportgus

Guest
#1
#1
Some of you may know the interesting and "buggy" behavior of docking ports in sfs (and ksp). It can be unforgiving causing massive amounts of lag or useful allowing you to accelerate infinitely without help from other parts or fuel. I'm talking about "Acarii Drives".
So basically you have a setup like this:
Screenshot_20221128-105207.png

By force I mean magnet force. When I launch nothing happens, the 100% port is inactive because it is blocked by a struct, but I am still able to activate it. When it is activated after a few seconds the 0% port attracts to the 100% port but is blocked, causing it to continuously attract. This setup makes you accelerate in the direction of the 0% port, forever. This is scalable in most forms, more ports, more power. And separation force doesn't matter.
Screenshot_20221128-111335.png

I don't know if this is outdated or physics changes a bit, but here is a way better explanation on Reddit from the creator of the drive: Acarii Post
A basic setup and example of an Acarii drive, More coming.
 
S

Sportgus

Guest
#2
#2
It seems like the 100% port attracts to the 0% port and the 0% is just attracted to, but the game doesn't account for the magnets not even being able to move move.
 
S

Sportgus

Guest
#3
#3
Another example:
20 full power ports against one no power port giving about 3 m/s.
Screenshot_20221128-113022.png

As you can see by the mass and port number, they are clipped inside each other. Blocking the port as well as clipping it won't stop the magnetic force once activated.
Screenshot_20221128-113039.png

This eventually gets too laggy with too many ports, then you need the steam version to have higher than 1 TWR and not lag out.
 
S

Sportgus

Guest
#4
#4
Another example, toggleable drives:
To make a toggleable Acarii drive you need to have a standard system but the force less ports need to be able to connect back to the commanding craft, or forceful ports safely and more than a few times.
Like this,
Screenshot_20221128-114543.png

the 35 bottom forceful ports activate and the solar panel is too. Once fully extended the 1 force less port is activated and the vessel accelerates. When needed the solar panel is retracted and the top ports connect, stopping acceleration.
This method is a bit bulky so i would prefer using landing legs, like this
Screenshot_20221128-114708.png

This is the craft on launch before activations.
35 ports activate and the top most one is too.
Screenshot_20221128-114725.png

The vessel accelerates. When ready you can deactivate by retracting the landing legs both at the same time, using staging.
Obviously with bp editing this can be easily made ludicrous, but I want to focus more vanilla and non bp edit.
These drives can be sent by regular rockets to orbit for maximum efficiency or with payloads attached. It would act like the super efficient light speed ion engine everybody wants for payloads.
(For mobile because lag)
 
S

Sportgus

Guest
#8
#8
I used no gravity because it was easier to show the examples. The ports exploded everywhere because you didn't have them attached to something, put a 1 by 2 strut on the back of them and it should be better.
 
S

Sportgus

Guest
#11
#11
I've made a drive which has a TWR of over 1 and SHOULD be able to turn off and on.
Screenshot_20221130-175238.png

There is some problems . When the broken port sections ports are undocked, wether it's all ports at once or specific ones, they instantly re dock. Also sometimes even when docked the vessel still accelerates, this shouldn't happen.
I think the acceleration is because even though all of the ports are aligned, only a few or one actually dock so the undocked ones still attract.
I don't know about the instant docking.
 
S

Sportgus

Guest
#13
#13
Thanks for chucking me back into this Danny, I have a habit of starting things and not finishing them. Although I couldn't think of a workaround of the redock problem, I think I have one.
 
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S

Sportgus

Guest
#14
#14
I used my brain :)
I don't actually need to have them dock to the below ports to disable it. I can just move it out of magnetic reach via a large solar panel. Then it can be dock once out of reach and there would be no issues. One issue though.. the mass it takes to do this is. The more mechanisms you add or invent the more mass meaning less pushy pushy. :(
Here is a demonstration
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/vge6QMmwM1o
 
S

Sportgus

Guest
#15
#15
Holy crap I just did it, it can toggle on and off without breaking (barely) and floats in earth gravity.
 
S

Sportgus

Guest
#17
#17
This is the setup
Screenshot_20221217-105126.png

It's the old one but with a better toggle system.
Once everything is activated it works like a normal drive. To disable it the large solar panel is extended, this pushes the inside piece up and out of range of the bottom ports. It isn't enough to dock it to the top most port but if you fiddle with the solar panels it will dock, fully disabled. Once you need to accelerate again you undock the middle piece and activate the top solar panel. It will attract together.
Here is the demonstration
Screenshot_20221217-105141.png

0% force docking ports activated.
Screenshot_20221217-105151.png

100% force docking ports activated.
Screenshot_20221217-105158.png

It starts accelerating (controllably)
Screenshot_20221217-105214.png

It's pushes up and is just out of reach of the magnetic force, and also the port it needs to connect to.
Luckily solar panels can move parts by clipping through them, so if you fiddle with the solar panels you can disable it fully.
Screenshot_20221217-105233.png

There is no force being applied when disabled so it can work in space.
No collision damage is on to showcase easily.
INFINITE DELTA V OBTAINED
 
Danny Batten

Danny Batten

Sanctor **《T》** MT/SP/TE/ Governor of Terra SOI
Professor
Registered
#18
#18
Sportgus said:
This is the setup
View attachment 95189
It's the old one but with a better toggle system.
Once everything is activated it works like a normal drive. To disable it the large solar panel is extended, this pushes the inside piece up and out of range of the bottom ports. It isn't enough to dock it to the top most port but if you fiddle with the solar panels it will dock, fully disabled. Once you need to accelerate again you undock the middle piece and activate the top solar panel. It will attract together.
Here is the demonstration
View attachment 95190
0% force docking ports activated.
View attachment 95191
100% force docking ports activated.
View attachment 95192
It starts accelerating (controllably)
View attachment 95193
It's pushes up and is just out of reach of the magnetic force, and also the port it needs to connect to.
Luckily solar panels can move parts by clipping through them, so if you fiddle with the solar panels you can disable it fully.
View attachment 95194
There is no force being applied when disabled so it can work in space.
No collision damage is on to showcase easily.
INFINITE DELTA V OBTAINED
Click to expand...
So ive been doing some data collecting, having the 0%mag ports vertically, while the max mag ports horizontally can increase acceleration by about 10.1%. However do not exceed 10 blocks (meters) between the furthest away max mag port or its diminished gains
image_2022-12-17_160532782.png
 
S

Sportgus

Guest
#20
#20
Sportgus said:
This is the setup
View attachment 95189
It's the old one but with a better toggle system.
Once everything is activated it works like a normal drive. To disable it the large solar panel is extended, this pushes the inside piece up and out of range of the bottom ports. It isn't enough to dock it to the top most port but if you fiddle with the solar panels it will dock, fully disabled. Once you need to accelerate again you undock the middle piece and activate the top solar panel. It will attract together.
Here is the demonstration
View attachment 95190
0% force docking ports activated.
View attachment 95191
100% force docking ports activated.
View attachment 95192
It starts accelerating (controllably)
View attachment 95193
It's pushes up and is just out of reach of the magnetic force, and also the port it needs to connect to.
Luckily solar panels can move parts by clipping through them, so if you fiddle with the solar panels you can disable it fully.
View attachment 95194
There is no force being applied when disabled so it can work in space.
No collision damage is on to showcase easily.
INFINITE DELTA V OBTAINED
Click to expand...
81:13 but I suppose ratios don't work because positioning and orientation.
 
Danny Batten

Danny Batten

Sanctor **《T》** MT/SP/TE/ Governor of Terra SOI
Professor
Registered
#22
#22
Sportgus said:
81:13 but I suppose ratios don't work because positioning and orientation.
Click to expand...
from what i can tell no ratio matters, think of it like this, 8m radius from the static bottom port, the top moving port that generates the lift should not go further than 7 meters away, or that bottom port is no longer effecting it
 
S

Sportgus

Guest
#24
#24
Danny Batten said:
from what i can tell no ratio matters, think of it like this, 8m radius from the static bottom port, the top moving port that generates the lift should not go further than 7 meters away, or that bottom port is no longer effecting it
Click to expand...
By ratios I mean about magnetic force. More ports more force!
 
Danny Batten

Danny Batten

Sanctor **《T》** MT/SP/TE/ Governor of Terra SOI
Professor
Registered
#25
#25
Sportgus said:
By ratios I mean about magnetic force. More ports more force!
Click to expand...
i think ive done it, probably one of the best ones yet. Not quite mathematically perfect, but close. just realised. This would be much more efficient if we called on discord
image_2022-12-17_163056762.png
 
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