DeltaV to Orbit

#1
We've had many challenges before, but I wanted to post a new one (In part because I'm looking for some data :D)

Challenge: Get to LEO with minimal delta-v. Place your spacecraft in a 35km x 35km orbit (+-5km, difference <7km).

Once completed, provide the following information:

IF SSTO:
Initial TWR:
Delta-v used:
Fuel % remaining:
Engines used:
Launch #:
Did you exit to turn on aerodrag (Y/N):
Apoapsis:
Periapsis:
Description of gravity turn method (optional):

IF Multi-staged:
For each stage---
Initial TWR:
Delta-v used:
Engines used:
End of individual stages---
Launch #:
Did you exit to turn on aerodrag (Y/N):
Apoapsis:
Periapsis:
Description of gravity turn method (optional):


What I'm looking for in particular is to see the range of delta-v used to get into LEO and see how TWR affects that.

RULES:
No cheats.
All stages must use all engines at once (I've got to analyze this data, ok?).
Accurate reporting of all data to the best of your ability and knowledge.



Optional: If you could launch the same craft a few times, recording the data, that gives information about the range. Also, launching the same craft using the aero drag or no aero drag. If you really want to help out, use different engines and twr combinations following the same gravity turn method. One top-notch thing you could do is take existing spacecraft you like and test those, reporting the results.

Criteria: (I'm trying to make it fair for everyone. It's not all about the smallest, lightest, because there are so many different classes. Not all craft compete)
(SSTO) Different classes of initial twr (1.0 to 2.0 in 0.1 increments)
(Multi-staged) Initial twr of both stages (Using increments of 1/4 for stages after first) (Ex. TWR 1st stage 1.4, 2nd stage 1.0 is similar enough to 1.4 then 1.1)
Drag/no drag.
Delta-v used.
Engine type.
Number of times orbit was reached for the purpose of this challenge.

BONUS: Calculations. If someone could calculate the minimal delta-v to orbit, that would be great.

I will consider posting winners using a combination of these listed criteria, though it may become too much. I also retain the right to reject all data that doesn't fit my preconceived notion.

Goal: The goal is to collect data on reaching LEO so that twr and other variables can be optimized for takeoff.

Thank you all, and I hope you all enjoy it!

P.S. Calculating deltaV: isp*9.8*ln(M0/[M0-Mfuel*.9*%left/100%]) where M0=mass at takeoff, Mfuel is the wet mass (all mass for all fuel tanks), and %left is the %fuel left after orbit.
 
#2
Edits to above: Use % fuel used, not left, for deltav equation.
Also, please report total deltav used, and please include at least a picture in the editor. Thanks!


Example:

Stage #1
Initial TWR: 1.42
Delta-v used: 1396
Engines used: 1 Hawk
Stage #2
Initial TWR: 1.06
Delta-v used: 1127
Engines used: 1 Broadsword

Deltav total: 2522
Launch #: 1
Did you exit to turn on aerodrag (Y/N): N
Apoapsis: 35.0
Periapsis: 33.9
Description of gravity turn method (optional): Straight up until 100m/s, then ~20 degree turn, and keep apoapsis less than twice current altitude until stageing. After staging, keep apoapsis low (in atmosphere) burning near horizontally, until slight nose up to maintain altitude.

1576040598843.png
 

Horus Lupercal

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#6
Yeah, this sounds like a Horus Lupercal kind of challenge to me.
I'd actually been thinking about something like this for a little bit, but setting the challenge with a pre-set rocket design with a TWR of 2 and Dv of 3500 then using different thrust settings and flight paths to determine the most efficient TWR/gravity turns with a competition for 'best pilot to orbit' thrown in.

Johnkurveen, I'd also throw in a total aero/drag calculation based upon @Altaïrs aerodynamics worksheet. And, it could be interesting to see how each engine performs at a set launch TWR. Like all rockets at 1.2 will come off the pad at the same speed, but a lower dry mass build with high finishing TWR (titan powered for example) will accelerate a lot harder towards the end of its burn compared to an engine with a poor TWR (frontier).

With the data collection, I can help check start-finish Dv/TWR pretty easily so if you get buried in loads of entries.
 
#7
True, but I also wanted to make it easy for people to enter their designs without having to calculate something like drag. We can do it in post, as they say.

There are so many variables that it might make sense to use fixed designs, honestly. Maybe that's next week's challenge!
 

Horus Lupercal

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#8
We can do it in post, as they say.
Aye, that's what I meant. Be quite interesting to see how much external stuff can be put on the side before the buggy aero goes from manageable to flying through treacle.


There are so many variables that it might make sense to use fixed designs, honestly. Maybe that's next week's challenge!
Kinda why I wanted to make a fixed design challenge, so it can be ran as a control group with the only variable being thrust rather than all sorts of stuff getting dropped in the pot
 
T

TtTOtW

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#9
A little something I'm busy with
Screenshot_20191212-095849.png

This is for straight up, drag properly on. Now to input the data from my recording. After that I'll do a theoretical curve and see how reality compares.
 

Horus Lupercal

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#10
Right, I'd like to volunteer this the now.

The rocky horror show that is this thing.

Screenshot_2019-12-26-05-03-14.png


Your required data is is follows:

Screenshot_2019-12-26-05-33-53.png


Stage 1.
Dv used: 1212m/s
TWR: 1.12 (12 hawks @ 13,800kN)

Stage 2.
Dv used: 2833m/s (yes, I used every...single...drop in the tanks)
TWR: 1.07 (6 hawks @ 6900kN)

All up, I cooked 4045m/s and got to 30.8kmx31km.

Flight path:
Launch 1. Usual lift to 3000m, turn over, 30 degrees by 5km, 45 degrees by 10km, 60 at 15km and nearly flat by 20km meant I dropped out of the sky doing 1,400m/s before breaking the Karman line.
Launch 2. Straight up to 5000m before turning, 30 degrees by 12km, 45 by 20km until the Karman line at about 50-55 degrees, failed at 1500ish.
Launch 3. Straight up, no mucking about for 10,000metres, even after staging in a vertical climb. Then come over and follow the direction arrow as much as possible to minimise the drag (HA!) until you break space and then attain orbit literally as you run out of fuel.
 
T

TtTOtW

Guest
#11
Right, I'd like to volunteer this the now.

The rocky horror show that is this thing.

View attachment 31286

Your required data is is follows:

View attachment 31287

Stage 1.
Dv used: 1212m/s
TWR: 1.12 (12 hawks @ 13,800kN)

Stage 2.
Dv used: 2833m/s (yes, I used every...single...drop in the tanks)
TWR: 1.07 (6 hawks @ 6900kN)

All up, I cooked 4045m/s and got to 30.8kmx31km.

Flight path:
Launch 1. Usual lift to 3000m, turn over, 30 degrees by 5km, 45 degrees by 10km, 60 at 15km and nearly flat by 20km meant I dropped out of the sky doing 1,400m/s before breaking the Karman line.
Launch 2. Straight up to 5000m before turning, 30 degrees by 12km, 45 by 20km until the Karman line at about 50-55 degrees, failed at 1500ish.
Launch 3. Straight up, no mucking about for 10,000metres, even after staging in a vertical climb. Then come over and follow the direction arrow as much as possible to minimise the drag (HA!) until you break space and then attain orbit literally as you run out of fuel.
Mean mission, man! Make more!
 
#12
Right, I'd like to volunteer this the now.

The rocky horror show that is this thing.

View attachment 31286

Your required data is is follows:

View attachment 31287

Stage 1.
Dv used: 1212m/s
TWR: 1.12 (12 hawks @ 13,800kN)

Stage 2.
Dv used: 2833m/s (yes, I used every...single...drop in the tanks)
TWR: 1.07 (6 hawks @ 6900kN)

All up, I cooked 4045m/s and got to 30.8kmx31km.

Flight path:
Launch 1. Usual lift to 3000m, turn over, 30 degrees by 5km, 45 degrees by 10km, 60 at 15km and nearly flat by 20km meant I dropped out of the sky doing 1,400m/s before breaking the Karman line.
Launch 2. Straight up to 5000m before turning, 30 degrees by 12km, 45 by 20km until the Karman line at about 50-55 degrees, failed at 1500ish.
Launch 3. Straight up, no mucking about for 10,000metres, even after staging in a vertical climb. Then come over and follow the direction arrow as much as possible to minimise the drag (HA!) until you break space and then attain orbit literally as you run out of fuel.
Wow. THIS, of all posts, is my legacy on the forum. What's supposed to symbolize a palace on Mun(never built) now symbolizes drag and >4000m/s of dV needed for Low Kerbin Orbit.
 

Horus Lupercal

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#13
Wow. THIS, of all posts, is my legacy on the forum. What's supposed to symbolize a palace on the Mun moon(never built) now symbolizes drag and >4000m/s of dV needed for Low Kerbin Earth Orbit.
Let's be fair, it is possibly the most draggy object ever successfully placed into orbit. So it's a monument to the right of arc needed to get into space in KSP Spaceflight Simulator in terms of Dv and flight path.