J3 Mângo’s Team hawk entries

[J3 Mângo]

Ok, it took a while and a bit of trial and error but I think I have an accurate Ariane 5 for a mod to rate:

https://sharing.spaceflightsimulator.app/rocket/ghh2SB4WEe6duLuAd13aUA

 

[New Horizons]

Nice!!!

 

[Pink]

What version are you copying?

 

[J3 Mângo]

G version i think

 

[Pink]

Sorry for the delay.

I was only able to find a low quality graphic, but it looks as if it should be 54m tall, and the interstage of the core is as tall as the tips of the boosters.
Picture from Ariane 5G , if you think it's wrong don't hesitate to provide a different source.

 

[J3 Mângo]

Delay or not, don’t worry I updated it and I overlayed it to get an idea. Does this one look better?

https://sharing.spaceflightsimulator.app/rocket/cyZLxTWpEe6d5buAd13aUA

 

[J3 Mângo]

Does it pass?

 

[Pink]

Again, the main thing missing is that the core stage has an interstage that reaches higher than the boosters.
The second stage shouldn't start until above the boosters and is very tiny in the case of the G version (The G second stage is only 3.4m tall if I understand correctly, whereas the ECA version is 4.7m tall, closer to yours).
Maybe you should use this overlay:

Here it is with no background:

I moved the G version upper stage to on top of the body for you:

 

[J3 Mângo]

Again, the main thing missing is that the core stage has an interstage that reaches higher than the boosters.
The second stage shouldn't start until above the boosters and is very tiny in the case of the G version (The G second stage is only 3.4m tall if I understand correctly, whereas the ECA version is 4.7m tall, closer to yours).
Maybe you should use this overlay:

Here it is with no background:
View attachment 105636
I moved the G version upper stage to on top of the body for you:
View attachment 105637

Ok I raised the interstage up and shortened the 2nd stage. I don’t know if the interstage is the right height.
https://sharing.spaceflightsimulator.app/rocket/9BuMpjeGEe6d57uAd13aUA

 

[Pink]

Raise the top of your interstage by 0.5 m
Shorten your second stage by 0.5 m
Shorten the fairing by 4 meters
Then we'll check again.

 

[J3 Mângo]

Like this?
https://sharing.spaceflightsimulator.app/rocket/kXx2MDn0Ee6d7LuAd13aUA

 

[Pink]

Getting closer.

Shorten the fairing by another meter and change the second stage engine to a valient.
(You may stack multiple valients if necessary)

 

[J3 Mângo]

https://sharing.spaceflightsimulator.app/rocket/AH0nAjn4Ee6d7LuAd13aUA

 

[Pink]

Ok. Decision time:
BP editing or no? If yes, then change the SRB diameter to 3.06 m, and the core and fairing to a diameter of 5.4 m. If no BP editing, you can skip that, but take off the angled engines and any other bp edited parts.


Are you doing the single satellite or two satellite version? If it's the two satellite version, you need a shroud for the bottom satellite that ejects once the upper satellite does:


If it's the single satellite version, you need to shorten the fairing by 6 m:

 

[J3 Mângo]

Changed to single satellite version and no bp edit
https://sharing.spaceflightsimulator.app/rocket/D24NaDn8Ee6d7LuAd13aUA

 

[Pink]

So that's the shape. Looks a bit weird, maybe just the fact that the core isn't 5.4 m which we could overlook.
Main concern now is that it's too heavy for what it can carry... This is mainly due to SFS fuel being a lot denser than the hydrogen in the core stage, but also the SRBs take too long to run out of fuel.
I'd say that you should start replacing fuel tanks on the SRBs and core with fairing pieces until the SRBs run out of fuel at.... Around 500-800 m/s? And the core with a big payload should run out of fuel at... Maybe 1400 m/s

Thankfully this is not hard due to how fairings work now, and you can put thin empty tanks between each fairing piece to stop them from changing diameter. It's up to you to find the right balance of fuel and empty space.

 

[J3 Mângo]

https://sharing.spaceflightsimulator.app/rocket/8sxhuDoVEe6d7LuAd13aUA
reduced fuel version

 

[Pink]

You can do better. Remove even more fuel.
The goal is for the second stage to be actually required to get to orbit. This still doesn't need the second stage. Keep in mind the velocities I mentioned.

As you remove fuel you'll notice the TWR goes too high because the rocket gets lighter, you can counteract that by putting ballast in the boosters and core. One method of ballast you can use is a bunch of full fuel tanks that aren't connected to the tanks the engines take fuel from. Essentially "untouchable fuel" as ballast. You can clip these tanks so they are maybe near the tops of the boosters and core and take up a small space.
I've done some testing, this is all quite possible with this rocket.

 

[J3 Mângo]

More fairings added and removed a valiant engine to stop the seperator from sticking
https://sharing.spaceflightsimulator.app/rocket/IFSGuDqaEe6d77uAd13aUA

 

[Pink]

There's two choices with regards to payload size:
You can either try to replicate the actual payload mass (16 tonnes to low earth orbit), or use SFS standards because SFS parts are so heavy so it's hard to make a lightweight large satellite. If you are using SFS standards, for a rocket like this... Go for a payload of 70 tonnes.
Whichever way you choose, the boosters should run out of fuel at around 500 m/s, and the core should run out of fuel at around 1400 m/s. Keep the TWR with the payload included at around 1.8, like the real Ariane 5.
You know what you have to do, go ahead and juggle fuel amounts with ballast amounts until the rocket behaves like it should. You're getting close.

 

[J3 Mângo]

I think I got it? 16.55 tonne satellite/space station part and a thrust to weight of 1:80
https://sharing.spaceflightsimulator.app/rocket/ayszDDqgEe6d77uAd13aUA
is this good?

 

[J3 Mângo]

Does this qualify?

 

[Pink]

Sorry for not responding.
Yes, the timing and TWR is a whole lot better now. I'd say you deserve the badge.

 

[J3 Mângo]

Thanks!

 

[New Horizons]

nice!