Odyssey Career Mode

#1
Post 1: Odyssey Career Mode & Your Role, Difficulty Options, Rules & Requirements 1-8
Post 2: Rules & Requirements 9-21
Post 3 Mission list (Earth, Moon, Interplanetary and Mars)
Post 4: Mission list (Phobos, Deimos, Venus, Mercury, Jupiter and its moons and Interstellar)

ODYSSEY CAREER MODE & YOUR ROLE
You are a startup private space company. You must qualify yourself by completing basic missions to prove your capabilities which will then allow you to undertake more complex and difficult missions. Your dreams include landing people on worlds not yet explored by man, searching the depths of Europa for life, building permanant outposts on Mars and maybe one day looking beyond our solar system. Those are all far off ideas though, you still haven't even launched a rocket off Earth. Time to get to work.

DIFFICULTY OPTIONS
Odyssey Career Mode is not for inexperienced players. Even for veteran players some of the rules in this challenge can be extreme or just plain unfair. Maybe even impossible if you haven't purchased the extra parts pack, so there are 4 difficulty options to choose from.

The difference between the difficulties lie with Rule 1 and Rule 4. Each have 2 variations, A and B. You can read each of the rule variations in the rule descriptions below.

Extreme: Rules 1-A and 4-A are in effect. (not recommended if you don't have the parts expansion pack)
Hardcore: Rules 1-B and 4-A are in effect. (not recommended if you don't have the parts expansion pack)
Hard: Rules 1-A and 4-B are in effect.
Normal: Rules 1-B and 4-B are in effect.

(Whether you are using rule 4-A or 4-B heavily effects the designs of rockets, so if you decide to take up this challenge and share pictures of your rockets, it would add much needed context if you mention which rule or difficulty you're using. You don't have to, but it would make it easier to learn from or make comparisons)

RULES & REQUIREMENTS
1-A. Human life is sacred. Above all the safe return of crewed missions is paramount. If any crew member dies or is permanently stranded somewhere, all active crews must be immediately returned to Earth. At which point, all crewed missions become locked again and you must start over from mission 2. Probe missions and probe spacecraft/satellites remain as is, but all existing space stations and other craft made for crewed missions are now unusable. If a crew is stranded, all other projects must be put on hold until their safety can be confirmed. In the future if I can get some kind of currency figured out there could be a financial loss, but until then this will do.

1-B. If any crew member dies or is permanently stranded somewhere, the punishment described in 1-A will ONLY apply to the mission group of the mission you killed a crew member in. Missions are grouped by planets and moons, so if a crew member dies while trying to complete a Moon mission, all crewed Moon missions will be locked again except the first one, any living crew still deployed on a Moon mission must be returned to Earth and recovered, and all existing craft/structures launched to complete crewed Moon missions will be unusable. Probe missions/existing probe craft, and all non-Moon mission craft/crew would be unaffected.

2. Simulations, real launches and reverting. You're allowed to run simulations to test rockets, but for real launches you must tell yourself "This is a real launch" before launching. In real launches, if something goes wrong, you can't revert the save or start over. You have to deal with it. Before running simulations, You must make a "real" save first, and load it back up when you want to do a real launch. You're allowed to make a "real" save mid mission to simulated things like landings or if you have enough fuel, but ONLY if you're in a stable orbit/a long time warp away from the crafts destination. Basically if ground control has enough time to simulate it in real time, it's okay to pause and sim. Sadly I don't have any punishments in place if I fail a probe mission. Like I said in the first rule, perhaps I can come up with something if I can get currency in place.

3. Build using as little fuel as possible. This is the main workaround to not having currency. If you can find a way to cut fuel and still complete the mission, you have to do it. There are two exceptions to this rule; if you have a manned rocket barely able to make it back to Earth in a simulation, Rule 1 will let you add slightly more fuel to ensure they can make it back for the real launch. The other is cutting weight from aesthetic, rped payloads. Sometimes a mission will require things like large habitats and even a drill platform. These can be built as big and heavy as you deem appropriate for what they are supposed to be, but the booster stages that launch it and get the payload to its destination must follow the rule and use as little fuel as you can manage.

4-A. Before all launches you must exit to the main menu from the launchpad and resume, this fixes the issue where there is barely any atmospheric drag. A warning: drag does not always apply correctly with the way SFS is coded and will often result in heavier drag penalties than you might expect. Rockets launched with full drag will sometimes need to be twice as heavy in order to make orbit. The lead developer Stef has been posting sneak peeks of the next update which include a reworking of the way drag works, which may render this rule moot. Until then however, enabling drag with this trick will significantly change the way you construct rockets.

For detailed information about how drag will affect individual parts, be sure to check out this spreadsheet and thread by Altaïr:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1010FfVr77E2I9gpNUgGKXX35A69AafIvFp7W4Jsiw-4/htmlview
https://jmnet.one/sfs/forum/index.php?threads/aerodynamics-in-sfs.2115/

4-B. Rule 4 does not apply at all, you may launch rockets normally.

5. Manned missions, depending on the destination, must have a minimum crew count. A command module counts as 1 crew, and a minimum of 2.5 tons of parts are to be attached to it to represent each additional crew. It could be probes, fuel tanks, batteries, RTGs, so long as it's at least 2.5 tons per crew member. All mission crew requirements increase in 2's, so 1 crew, 3 crew, 5 crew and so on, so you will mostly need to think in terms of adding an additional 5 tons. Keep in mind impact thresholds when designing your crew modules. Things like fuel tanks will destroy much easier than a command module. Pack your parachutes, or even landing legs and test your modules.

Now, I can see some loopholes being utilized here, so this is a list of parts that can NOT be used as crew analogues: Parachutes, all engines, landing legs, solar panels/arrays and wheels. You can still add these parts to your module of course, but their weight won't count towards the 2.5 tons per crew.

Special note: If using fuel tanks to represent crew, you cannot use that fuel. It must be sectioned off. I understand you might not have a choice in the matter when using rcs, so i'll add a stipulation that you must transfer fuel to top off your module if rcs uses it, and you can't use rcs if your module fuel is the only fuel you have. If using batteries or RTG's, also note that they wont count towards any power or battery requirements your mission or ship might have. You must add additional batteries and power generators if you have a need for them.

Earth orbit/suborbit: 1 crew
Moon flyby: 1 crew
Moon orbit/landing: 3 crew
Mars/Phobos/Deimos/Venus: 5 crew
Mercury/Jupiters moons: 7 crew

These are all general outlines, but crew minimums for some specific missions may vary and will be specified in the mission outline.

6. Low Earth Orbit, Medium Earth Orbit and Geostationary Orbit. For the purpose of creating targeted orbit missions I have set heights for these orbits. LEO is 30-200km, MEO is 200-1769.3km, and GEO is 1769.4km. Since GEO doesn't actually exist in SFS (since planets don't rotate) I came up with that height by scaling real world GEO down by the same ratio that Earth in SFS was scaled down to.

7. Relay/Communication satellites require at least 1 probe, 1 power generation, 100 battery and some kind of radar dish/antenna. In the past I used a 4 section structural part as an antenna, but I now use a separator with structural parts to make a radar dish. A neat trick also is to use a landing leg as an extendable antenna. If you decide to play this career mode yourself feel free to design it however you wish.

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Satellite relay networks use a minimum of 3 relay satellites in orbit around a celestial body to bounce signals off each other to provide complete 360 degrees of coverage no matter where you are on the surface. An example of a 5-satellite relay network I have around Earth atm:

IMG_20190216_175556_416.JPG


8. Science Probe Satellites/Landers/Rovers. All these require a minimum of 2 probes, 2 power generation, 200 battery and a radar dish/antenna (like with the relay/comm satellites). Science Satellites are required to be put in orbit of any celestial body you plan to land on. There are other rules like this but they don't really need to be listed here since missions like probe/manned landings are locked to start with and need to be unlocked by other missions.

For science probe missions that land on the surface and are required to be returned to Earth, the only parts that need to be returned are the probes. They are carrying surface samples. The power generators/batteries have served their purpose and are free to be kept or discarded for the return trip.
 
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#2
9. Habitats are required for manned missions that go beyond Earth and the Moon to deep space and other planets. The crew will live in them for both the journey, the destination and the return trip to Earth since they will likely be very long missions and living in those tiny command modules/probes just wont cut it. Habitats must have a minimum of 1 probe, 1 power generation, 100 battery and an additional 1 power/100 battery per crew member. They require a suitable amount of living space for all the crew members using either empty fuel tanks, fairings or even stacked separators as habitats. I didn't want to limit creativity with size requirements, so if it looks like it has a decent enough space to you, it's okay.

Here's an example of a habitat I was planning to use for a manned mothership to Mars prior to me restarting my game. It would stay in orbit for the return trip and another habitat would already be landed on the surface waiting for them. It has the 5 power and 500 battery for the 5 person crew plus the extra 1 power/100 battery required. The number of crew needed for any given mission, and thus the minimum requirements the habitat must meet will always be listed in the mission outline.

IMG_20190216_165503_498.jpg


And this is how you may want to make a living space using separators.

IMG_20190218_170130_217.JPG


(careful not to activate these ;))

Your crew don't magically teleport into a surface habitat however. You must transport your crew to the habitat in one of a few ways. One is to simply land the crews' ship and the habitat still docked together. Another is to accurately land the crews' ship within visual range of the habitat and have the crew walk there. Last is to taxi the crew from their landing site to the habitat in a crewed rover. The rover must be within visual range of the ship/habitat for crew to board/disembark. See rule 10 for more on crewed rovers.

10. Crewed rovers. The missions in this career mode will only ask for 2 types of crewed rovers, 2-crew and 4-crew.

2-crew min requirements:

-1 probe or command module
-A minimum of 4 tons in added weight to represent the crew which will result in the death of the crew if any of it is destroyed when the rover is manned. You can use either fuel tanks, additional probes or an additional command module for this. If you use fuel tanks, it must be sectioned off from other tanks and not used.
-2 power generation
-200 battery
-2 wheels

4-crew min requirements:

-1 probe or command module
-The same thing as the 2nd requirement in 2-crew rovers, only you need a minimum of 8 tons in crew analogue.
-4 power generation
-400 battery
-4 wheels

When unmanned, a crewed rover must be within visual range of a crewed vessel or habitat for the crew to board it. When not boarded it can still be remotely driven to pick up its passengers.

11. Science Surface Stations And Science Space Stations. They have the same requirements as habitats (rule 9) but with a couple things extra. In addition to habitat space and the 1 power/100 battery per crew, they require 10 power generation and 1000 battery. Surface Stations have an additional requirement of a crewed rover (rule 10 for requirements) to be within visual range of the station. The minimum crew needed for each the stations and the rovers will be stated in the mission.

Some missions require the station to be manned at all times and some are one time use. Missions that are to always be manned will be stated to be so in the mission along with the frequency you are expected to replace the crew, while one time use missions will simply state to return the crew back to Earth.

Science Surface Stations follow the same rules as habitats in regards to transporting crews to the station.

12. Mars colony. Mars is the only planet to have a colony mission, and minus the Generation Colony Ship/Fleet it is the endgame goal of this career mode. A Mars colony requires the following minimums:

-Enough habitats (see rule 9) to house 100 humans. They may be many small ones or a few big ones, so long as they meet the habitat requirements. Decide however you like how much living space they will need.
-2 7-crew Science Surface Stations. (manned by the colonists)(see rule 11)
-90 tons of fuel to start with, and an additional 90 tons launched from Earth to the colony at every Mars transfer window to maintain the colony. Failure to restock the colony at the transfer window means the death of the colony and the punishment mentioned in rule 1. (the 90 tons of fuel doesn't include the weight of the tanks, so 90 tons of fuel would be 100tons of full fuel tanks, or 200 tons of fuel tanks that are 50% full)
-2 4-crew minimum capacity rovers. (see rule 10)
-2 science probe rovers (see rule 8)

All the listed requirements must be within visual range of each other to be counted as part of the colony. All requirements must be put in place before the arrival of the colonists. How the colonists get to the colony is up to you, so long as they meet the habitat requirements on the journey to Mars. The requirements may, and probably will be changed down the line. I'm nowhere near this stage in my career game so who knows how things will progress.

13. Generation Colony Ship/Fleet. Aimed to be the winning condition once all other missions are completed, requirements to be determined.

14. Space debris and the Clear Debris/Destroy button are not allowed. Anything launched into space must have a means to deorbit itself/be put on a collision course to destroy it. If by chance you create space debris, you must come up with a means to deorbit/destroy it before being allowed to complete other missions. Replacement crew missions are an exception to that last part.

The destroy option is allowed however under certain conditions. If on a planet or moons surface there is an object you want to destroy, you may destroy it if it's within visual range of a crewed craft. It's rped as the crew dismantling or clearing it aside. This is to help with issues where a rovers path is blocked by spent stages, or you just want to clear them to make way for something else to land.

15. Ion engines are only allowed to be used on satellites (communication/relay/science/telescope). I found them to be far too powerful and made ship designs too small. This rule was added mid-career, so the first 2 probe Moon landings I did used ions, but none after that. The sole exception to this rule is Interstellar Space mission 2, the Generation Colony Ship/Fleet, because Ions may be the only viable engines for such a mission under the rules of this career mode.

16. Blueprint editing and sandbox settings are not allowed. An exception for sandbox settings can be made when running simulations.

17. Venus is a special case in this career mode. It ought to have an atmosphere that would obliterate anything sent to the surface, so spacecraft sent there will have these special requirements.

-The outside hull of any surface spacecraft needs to be reinforced with two layers of structural parts. This is to act as structural reinforcement/heat shielding against Venus' harsh atmosphere
-The only parts of the craft allowed to be exposed are the engines, parachutes, landing legs and docking ports, but all these, aside from the engines, must be outside the reinforcement layers.
-A slight gap between the rocket and shielding is also fine to allow the armour layer to be ejected like fairings using side separators after launching out of the atmosphere, since it would just be dead weight for the return trip. For the sake of simplicity, this shielding can be shed once a ship has passed 30km.

This 5-crew example should give an idea what I mean by a double layer of structural parts and being able to eject it.

IMG_20190222_134203_253.JPG


18. Europa drilling platform. Europa has a unique mission that requires a drilling platform to delve deep below its thick icy surface to explore the mysterious theorized ocean below. This could be built any number of ways and I don't want to limit creativity here, so the only requirements I'll give for it will be 10 power generation, 1000 battery, 36 tons of fuel (or 40 tons in full fuel tanks) and some kind of drill.

19. Fairings and aerodynamics. In the current version of SFS, things like fairings and nosecones do nothing but add weight. They don't reduce drag at all. But, I think they still serve a valuable aesthetic purpose so for this career mode all rockets must still use them. Fairings must stay on until 20km on Earth. I don't want to limit designs too much, so Mars and Venus get a pass on needing to be aerodynamic to launch from, especially Venus since she has her own crazy requirements regarding atmosphere.

20. Exploits. I hope this isn't needed to be stated, but exploits such as using indestructible closed solar panels to land spacecraft and infinite RCS are not allowed. If there are other bugs like this that give some kind of unintended advantage it is also not allowed.

21. A Space Telescope requires a minimum of 3 probes, 4 power generation, 400 battery, a radar dish/antenna like described in Rule 7, and a docking port to allow crewed spacecraft to dock and service it. It might be hard to come up with something that looks distinctly "telescopey", whether you add aesthetic parts to make it look the part is up to you.

...oh, you're still reading? Wow, props to you. Yes, that is a lot of rules, but it's a lot easier to follow than it seems when you start with the actual missions. The missions take a slow approach and let you take small steps, one by one coming across missions that actually use these guidelines. You wont be asked to build science stations on the surface of Jupiters moons anytime soon, or even land people on our own Moon for a good while. But if you thought this was a long list, well... the mission list is next.
 
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#3
MISSIONS

Missions are the meat of this career mode. Following the rules and requirements in the previous posts, you start off with baby steps. Launching a suborbital probe, which then unlocks a probe orbital mission and a manned suborbital mission. The missions scale up in difficulty and complexity as you progress and are arranged so that you must complete a feat using probes before being allowed to do a manned version and ensuring proper communication coverage is in place for any surface missions. The ultimate goal is to work up to creating a colony on Mars, then sending a generation colony ship/fleet outside the solar system.

Notes:
-Unless otherwise stated by the mission, multiple missions can be completed at the same time with the same vessel. For instance, Mars mission 7 (manned landing) can be completed at the same time as Deimos mission 5 and Phobos mission 5 (also manned landings) so long as the missions are unlocked. Missions only outline the end goal, how that goal is accomplished is up to you. Construct ships in orbit, launch all at once, all is fair game so long as the rules and mission description don't forbid it.
-Not all missions in a group need to be completed to move on to the next group. Check the mission unlock requirements for each of the planet and moons first mission to see when you can start them.
-Mission 6 must be completed before docking ports can be used on other missions to prove your space company can rendezvous properly.

Earth based:
1)Launch a suborbital normal probe and recover
2)Launch a suborbital *1-crew spacecraft and recover (*see rule 5)(complete Earth mission 1 to unlock)
3)Launch a normal probe into Earth Orbit. Deorbit and recover (complete Earth mission 1 to unlock)
4)Launch a 1-crew spacecraft into orbit. Deorbit and recover (complete Earth missions 2 and 3 to unlock)
5)Launch a *communications satellite into *Medium Earth Orbit (*see rules 6 and 7)(complete Earth mission 3 to unlock)
6)Launch 2 spacecraft (probe or crewed) into Low Earth Orbit and perform a rendezvous+docking. Undock, return both to Earth and recover (complete Earth mission 3 if you use a probe or 4 if you use crewed to unlock)
7)Launch a communications satellite a into *Geostationary Orbit (*see rule 6)(complete Earth mission 5 to unlock)
8)Set up a full 360 coverage *satellite relay network around Earth (*see rule 7)(complete Earth mission 5 to unlock)
9)Build a 5-crew *Science Space Station in LEO. (*see rule 11)(complete Earth missions 6, 7 and 8 to unlock)
10)Replace crew of the space station and recover old crew (complete Earth mission 9 to unlock)
11)Launch a *Space Telescope into LEO (*see rule 21)(complete Earth mission 8 to unlock)
12)Launch a 3-crew spacecraft to dock with your Space Telescope to service it, then return to Earth and recover (complete Earth mission 11 to unlock)

Moon based:
1)Launch a normal probe in a flyby of the Moon on a return trajectory, return to Earth and recover (complete Earth missions 7 and 8 to unlock)
2)Launch a *science probe into Lunar orbit (*see rule 8)(complete Moon mission 1 to unlock)
3)Launch a 1-crew spacecraft in a flyby of the Moon on a return trajectory, return to Earth and recover (complete Moon mission 2 to unlock)
4)Launch a normal probe into Lunar orbit, return to Earth and recover (complete Moon mission 2 to unlock)
5)Launch a 3-crew spacecraft into Lunar orbit, return to Earth and recover (complete Moon missions 3 and 4 to unlock)
6)Set up a full 360 degree coverage satellite relay network around the Moon (complete Moon mission 2 to unlock)
7)Land a permanent science probe lander on the Moon (complete Moon mission 6 to unlock)
8)Land a permanent science probe rover on the Moon (complete Moon mission 6 to unlock)
9)Land a science probe lander or rover on the Moon, return it to Earth and recover (complete Moon mission 4 and either 7 or 8 to unlock. Cannot use the same lander/rover from Moon missions 7 or 8 to complete)
10)Land a 3-crew manned lander on the Moon, return humans to Earth and recover (complete Moon mission 9 to unlock)
11)Drive a 2-crew minimum capacity *rover on the Moon. Rover is unmanned at first and must be within visual range of a crewed spaceship or habitat to be manned (*see rule 10)(complete Moon missions 8 and 9 to unlock)
12)Build a 5-crew *Science Surface Station on the Moon with a 2-crew minimum capacity rover. (*see rule 11)(complete Earth mission 10 and Moon mission 11 to unlock)
13)Replace crew of Science Surface Station (complete Moon mission 12 to unlock)

Interplanetary space based:
1)Launch a communication or science probe beyond Earths sphere of influence (complete Earth mission 8 to unlock)
2)Launch a minimum of 5-crew beyond Earths sphere of influence (complete Moon mission 10 to unlock)
3)Launch a science probe to within 31289.4km of the Sun (with adjusted scaling of SFS's Sun, is the equivalent to what the Parker Solar Probe is expected to achieve in 2024) (complete Earth mission 8 to unlock)

Mars based:
1)Launch a science satellite into Martian orbit (complete Earth missions 7 and 8 to unlock)
2)Set up a full 360 degree coverage satellite relay network around Mars (complete Mars mission 1 to unlock. Can be launched in the same window as Mars mission 1, but the science satellite must get to Mars first)
3)Land a permanent science probe lander on Mars (complete Moon mission 7 and Mars mission 2 to unlock)
4)Land a permanent science probe rover on Mars (complete Moon mission 8 and Mars mission 2 to unlock)
5)Land a science probe lander or rover on Olympus Mons (the big volcano)(complete Mars mission 3 and 4 to unlock)
6)Land a science probe lander or rover on the surface of Mars, then return it to Earth and recover (can't use the same probe from Mars missions 3/4/5)(complete Mars mission 3 and 4 to unlock)
7)Land a *5-crew spacecraft on the surface of Mars, return to Earth and recover (*see rule 9 on habitats)(complete Moon mission 10 and Mars mission 6 to unlock)
8)Drive a 2-crew minimum capacity rover on Mars. Rover is unmanned at first and must be within visual range of a manned ship or habitat to be crewed (complete Mars mission 6 to unlock)
9)Build a 7-crew Science Surface Station on Mars with a 4-crew minimum capacity rover. (complete Mars missions 7 and 8 to unlock)
10)Replace crew of Science Surface Station and recover old crew (complete Mars mission 9 to unlock)
11)Build a *Human Colony on Mars (*see rule 12)(complete Earth mission 10, Moon mission 13, Mars mission 10, Venus mission 4, Mercury Mission 6, Jupiter mission 4, Io mission 6, Europa mission 6, Ganymede mission 6 and Callisto mission 6 to unlock)
12)Deliver 90 tons of fuel to the Mars colony at the next available Mars transfer window (complete Mars mission 11 to unlock)
 
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Deimos based:
1)Launch a science probe into orbit (complete Mars mission 1 to unlock)
2)Land a science probe lander on Deimos capable of hopping around the surface using rcs (complete Mars mission 2 and Deimos mission 1 to unlock)
3)Land a science probe lander on Deimos, then return to Earth and recover. Cannot use the same lander used in mission 2 (complete Deimos mission 1 to unlock)
4)Land a 5-crew spacecraft on Deimos, then return to Earth and recover. Habitat rule still applies if the stay is long term (complete Moon mission 10 and Deimos missions 2 and 3 to unlock)

Phobos based:
1)Launch a science probe into orbit (complete Mars mission 1 to unlock)
2)Land a science probe lander on Phobos capable of hopping around the surface using rcs (complete Mars mission 2 and Phobos mission 1 to unlock)
3)Land a science probe lander on Phobos, then return to Earth and recover. Cannot use the same lander used in mission 2 (complete Phobos mission 1 to unlock)
4)Land a 5-crew spacecraft on Phobos, then return to Earth and recover. Habitat rule still applies if the stay is long term (complete Moon mission 10 and Phobos missions 2 and 3 to unlock)

*Venus based: (*see rule 16)
1)Launch a science probe into orbit (complete Earth missions 7 and 8 to unlock)
2)Set up a full 360 degree coverage satellite relay network around Venus (complete Venus mission 1 to unlock. Can be launched in the same window as Venus mission 1, but the science satellite must get to Mars first)
3)Land a science probe lander on Venus, then return to Earth and recover. Even with *shielding, the lander will not survive long on the surface and must be launched back into orbit as soon as possible, even if it has to wait in orbit for a proper transfer window (*see rule 16)(complete Moon mission 9 Mars mission 6 and Venus mission 2 to unlock)
4)Launch a 5-crew spacecraft to Venus with a Science Space Station as a habitat. Land the *shielded 5-crew section on Venus, then immediately launch back up to the Science Space Station to perform science while waiting for a transfer window back to Earth to be recovered. The atmosphere is too hostile to stay on Venus, even with shielding. (complete Moon mission 10, Mars mission 7 and Venus mission 3 to unlock)

Mercury based:
1)Launch a science probe into orbit (complete Earth missions 7 and 8 to unlock)
2)Set up a full 360 degree coverage satellite relay network around Mercury (complete Mercury mission 1 to unlock. Can be launched in the same window as Mercury mission 1, but the science satellite must get to Mercury first)
3)Land a science probe lander on Mercury (complete Mars mission 3 and Mercury mission 2 to unlock)
4)Land a science probe rover on Mercury (complete Mars mission 4 and Mercury mission 2 to unlock)
5)Land a science probe lander or rover on Mercury, then return to Earth and recover (complete Mars mission 6 and Mercury missions 3 and 4 to unlock)
6)Land a 7-crew spacecraft on Mercury with a Science Surface Station and a 2-crew minimum capacity rover. Return to Earth and recover (complete Mars mission 9 and Mercury mission 5 to unlock)

Jupiter based:
1)Launch a science probe into an orbit lower than Io (complete Earth missions 7 and 8 to unlock)
2)Set up a full 360 degree coverage satellite relay network outside the orbit of Callisto. Treat Callistos' orbit line as a planets surface so that Callisto itself cannot break line of sight between the relay satellites (complete Jupiter mission 1 to unlock. Can be launched at the same time as Jupiter mission 1, but the science satellite must arrive first)
3)Build a 9-crew Science Space Station in orbit of either Jupiter or one of its moons. (complete Earth mission 10, Moon mission 13, and Mars mission 10 to and Jupiter mission 2 to unlock. If you choose to put it in orbit around one of Jupiters moons, you must also complete mission 2 of that moons mission group to unlock this.)
4)Replace crew of the Science Space Station and recover old crew (complete Jupiter mission 3 to unlock)

Io Based:
1)Launch a science probe into orbit (complete Jupiter mission 1 to unlock)
2)Set up a full 360 degree coverage satellite relay network around Io (complete Io mission 1 to unlock. Can be launched in the same window as Io mission 1, but the science satellite must get to Io first)
3)Land a science probe lander on Io (complete Mars mission 3, Jupiter mission 2 and Io mission 2 to unlock)
4)Land a science probe rover on Io (complete Mars mission 4 and Io mission 2 to unlock)
5)Land a science probe lander or rover on Io, then return to Earth and recover (complete Mars mission 6 and Io missions 3 and 4 to unlock)
6)Land a 7-crew spacecraft on Io with a Science Surface Station and a 2-crew minimum capacity rover. Return to Earth and recover (complete Mars mission 9 and Io mission 5 to unlock)

Europa Based:
1)Launch a science probe into orbit (complete Jupiter mission 1 to unlock)
2)Set up a full 360 degree coverage satellite relay network around Europa (complete Europa mission 1 to unlock. Can be launched in the same window as Europa mission 1, but the science satellite must get to Europa first)
3)Land a science probe lander on Europa (complete Mars mission 3, Jupiter mission 2 and Europa mission 2 to unlock)
4)Land a science probe rover on Europa (complete Mars mission 4 and Europa mission 2 to unlock)
5)Land a science probe lander or rover on Europa, then return to Earth and recover (complete Mars mission 6 and Europa missions 3 and 4 to unlock)
6)Land a 9-crew spacecraft on Europa with a Science Surface Station, a 4-crew minimum capacity rover and a *drilling platform. Return to Earth and recover (*see rule 17)(complete Mars mission 9 and Europa mission 5 to unlock)

Ganymede Based:
1)Launch a science probe into orbit (complete Jupiter mission 1 to unlock)
2)Set up a full 360 degree coverage satellite relay network around Ganymede (complete Ganymede mission 1 to unlock. Can be launched in the same window as Ganymede mission 1, but the science satellite must get to Ganymede first)
3)Land a science probe lander on Ganymede (complete Mars mission 3, Jupiter mission 2 and Ganymede mission 2 to unlock)
4)Land a science probe rover on Ganymede (complete Mars mission 4 and Ganymede mission 2 to unlock)
5)Land a science probe lander or rover on Ganymede, then return to Earth and recover (complete Mars mission 6 and Ganymede missions 3 and 4 to unlock)
6)Land a 7-crew spacecraft on Ganymede with a Science Surface Station and a 2-crew minimum capacity rover, return to Earth and recover (complete Mars mission 9 and Ganymede mission 5 to unlock)

Callisto Based:
1)Launch a science probe into orbit (complete Jupiter mission 1 to unlock)
2)Set up a full 360 degree coverage satellite relay network around Callisto (complete Callisto mission 1 to unlock. Can be launched in the same window as Callisto mission 1, but the science satellite must get to Callisto first)
3)Land a science probe lander on Callisto (complete Mars mission 3, Jupiter mission 2 and Callisto mission 2 to unlock)
4)Land a science probe rover on Callisto (complete Mars mission 4 and Callisto mission 2 to unlock)
5)Land a science probe lander or rover on Callisto, then return to Earth and recover (complete Mars mission 6 and Callisto missions 3 and 4 to unlock)
6)Land a 7-crew spacecraft on Callisto with a Science Surface Station and a 2-crew minimum capacity rover, return to Earth and recover (complete Mars mission 9 and Callisto mission 5 to unlock)

Interstellar space based:
1)Launch a science probe at escape velocity of the Sun (complete Earth missions 7 and 8 to unlock)
2)Launch a *generation colony ship (or fleet) at escape velocity of the Sun (*see rules)(Complete all missions to unlock)
 
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#5
I was planning on making a post listing all the changes and additions I made to the rules and mission list, but tbh I lost track because nearly everything was rewritten and adjusted so I'll just list the biggest things.

-Rule 1's "Game over if humans die" is gone. I thought it was a little too harsh and would probably stop me or others from restarting if it happened. I replaced it with the lesser punishment, but still very harsh rule that all completed crew missions become locked again and you have to start over at Earth mission 2. Existing crews must be returned home and all existing spacecraft used for crew missions can no longer be used. Still extreme, but most of the missions are probe missions and those will be left alone, including the satellite relay networks (And you'll hopefully still have the mission proven blueprints for your old crewed missions, testing them is the most time consuming thing after all, for me at least). Keep you crews safe people.

-Many changes were made to Rules 2-15. Soooo yeah. Happy reading.

-New rules, 16-20.

-I decided to renumber all the missions. Each planet and moon has their own list that starts at 1, rather than have Mars start at mission 27. It just seems cleaner and easier to read. When referencing missions needed to unlock a mission, it'll say something like "complete Earth mission 7 to unlock" and "complete Mars mission 1 to unlock". This also makes things easier if I ever want to add new missions, so the mission list wont end up looking like "Earth mission 8) 9) 10) 81)" :p

-Missions are added for Venus, Mercury, Jupiter, Io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto.

So those are the main things, but like I said I rewrote a lot, so if you read the first thread and wanted to try out this career mode challenge make sure to reread everything. Thank you <3


(now I can finally get to posting my rockets and progress and such :D. Except I'm kinda tired from typing all this so maybe another time... And also get back to playing the game. There's that.)
 
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TtTOtW

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#6
Absolutely brilliant in execution and coverage. Truly a worthy challenge and test of skill. Progression is very smooth but most will have to restart... we have to learn to value human life again, lol.
 

Altaïr

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#7
Huge program!
I'll give it a try, but I'd like to add precisions about aeodynamics. Exiting the game and resuming allows to enable drag indeed, but there are also a lot of drawbacks:
- fairings don't do their job, so it's impossible to cover RCS, rovers, solar panels... All those parts are very resistive.
- separators are also broken, each one adds a lot of effective surface, no matter how you place it.

Here is an example:
Screenshot_20190219-112707_Spaceflight Simulator.jpg
Because of the separator, the rocket on the right has more than twice resistance than the left one.
In the end, this can be very harmful for rockets with a lot of stages.

On another hand, the nose cones are very effective.

I don't have a simple solution to that problem to be honest, otherwise I would gladly propose it. But I just want people to be aware of it. ;)
 
#8
Absolutely brilliant in execution and coverage. Truly a worthy challenge and test of skill. Progression is very smooth but most will have to restart... we have to learn to value human life again, lol.
Yep, it makes crewed missions unbelievably nerve wracking, believe me. Before every "real" crewed mission I practice it to completion at least twice and take notes on the height and speed I should be at various stages. But boy does it feel good to see those parachutes pop when they come back to Earth.

Huge program!
I'll give it a try, but I'd like to add precisions about aeodynamics. Exiting the game and resuming allows to enable drag indeed, but there are also a lot of drawbacks:
- fairings don't do their job, so it's impossible to cover RCS, rovers, solar panels... All those parts are very resistive.
- separators are also broken, each one adds a lot of effective surface, no matter how you place it.

Here is an example:
View attachment 13744
Because of the separator, the rocket on the right has more than twice resistance than the left one.
In the end, this can be very harmful for rockets with a lot of stages.

On another hand, the nose cones are very effective.

I don't have a simple solution to that problem to be honest, otherwise I would gladly propose it. But I just want people to be aware of it. ;)
It's been an eye opener for sure when I started to design the rockets to fly in full atmosphere. One sizable mission I did prior to atmosphere rule I was able to do with a 170 ton rocket. The same one with full drag needed over 310 tons.

I personally enjoy the extreme challenge of these 2 rules, but I can see why it might be too much for others. While I still have editing rights I could make different difficulty levels. One with the current rules, one without the atmosphere rule, one with kinder punishments for human deaths, and one with both those rules nerfed. That would be fair, and if anyone were to take up this career mode they could preface their progress with which difficulty they are using.

So it could go like this:

Extreme: Rule 1 and 4 are in full effect
Hardcore: Rule 1 is still in effect, but it only resets and nullifies existing craft of the crewed missions within that mission group (Only Earth missions, Only Mars missions, ect.)
Hard: Rule 4 doesn't apply
Normal: Reduced rule 1 punishment from hardcore as well as rule 4 no longer applying

(I feel like the atmo rule makes things far more difficult than rule 1)

Thoughts?

edit: why did I type that twice...
 
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#9
I'll be posting a more detailed description of how this mission went another time (it was really fun how I decided to land it on the Moon), but this is the 310+ ton rocket I mentioned. It was to complete Moon mission 10 and 11 at once, first manned Moon landing and driving a 1-crew short-term rover on the Moon. To give an idea the huge size rockets need to launch with drag enabled.

Looking at it now, I can see even more problems with people trying to do this if they don't have the extra parts pack...
 

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Altaïr

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#10
The optional rules sounds as a good compromise. Especially that most people just ignore challenges when they are too hard, so making it more accesible for those who prefer shouldn't hurt ;)
 
#12
This is why I made 4 posts, so I have space to made additions :D

A new section was added on the 1st post and alternate rule 1 and 4's were added. I also added a warning on rule 4 about how sketchy full-drag can be

DIFFICULTY OPTIONS
Odyssey Career Mode is not for inexperienced players. Even for veteran players some of the rules in this challenge can be extreme or plain unfair. Maybe even impossible if you haven't purchased the extra parts pack, so there are 4 difficulty options to choose from.

The difference between the difficulties lie with Rule 1 and Rule 4. Each have 2 variations, A and B. You can read each of the rule variations in the rule descriptions below.

Extreme: Rules 1-A and 4-A are in effect. (not recommended if you don't have the parts expansion pack)
Hardcore: Rules 1-B and 4-A are in effect. (not recommended if you don't have the parts expansion pack)
Hard: Rules 1-A and 4-B are in effect.
Normal: Rules 1-B and 4-B are in effect.

(Whether you are using rule 4-A or 4-B heavily effects the designs of rockets, so if you decide to take up this challenge and share pictures of your rockets, it would add much needed context if you mention which rule or difficulty you're using. You don't have to, but it would make it easier to learn from or make comparisons)



1-B. If any crew member dies or is permanently stranded somewhere, the punishment described in 1-A will ONLY apply to the mission group of the mission you killed a crew member in. Missions are grouped by planets and moons, so if a crew member dies while trying to complete a Moon mission, all crewed Moon missions will be locked again except the first one, any living crew still deployed on a Moon mission must be returned to Earth and recovered, and all existing craft/structures launched to complete crewed Moon missions will be unusable. Probe missions/existing probe craft, and all non-Moon mission craft/crew would be unaffected.


4-A. Before all launches you must exit to the main menu from the launchpad and resume, this fixes the issue where there is barely any atmospheric drag. A warning: drag does not always apply correctly with the way SFS is coded and will often result in heavier drag penalties than you might expect. Rockets launched with full drag will sometimes need to be twice as heavy in order to make orbit. The lead developer Stef has been posting sneak peeks of the next update which include a reworking of the way drag works, which may render this rule moot. Until then however, enabling drag with this trick will significantly change the way you construct rockets.

4-B. Rule 4 does not apply at all, you may launch rockets normally.
 
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#14
Nice, good luck! I sometimes only manage 1 mission a day normally with how obsessed I can get trying to shave off weight o_O. And that's only with the simple missions.

It's bugging me that I completed Moon missions 7 and 8 using ions prior to adding the "ions can only be used on satellites" rule, so for myself I'm going to redo them under the new rules.



I promise not to constantly be adding missions and rules, especially when this title runs out and I can't freely edit anymore, but these are a couple missions that I couldn't believe slipped my mind and are simple enough. New Earth missions 11 and 12 and accompanying rule 21:

11)Launch a *Space Telescope into LEO (*see rule 21)(complete Earth mission 8 to unlock)
12)Launch a 3-crew spacecraft to dock with your Space Telescope to service it, then return to Earth and recover (complete Earth mission 11 to unlock)

21. A Space Telescope requires a minimum of 3 probes, 4 power generation, 400 battery and a docking port to allow crewed spacecraft to dock and service it. It might be hard to come up with something that looks distinctly "telescopey", whether you add aesthetic parts to make it look the part is up to you.
edit: Forgot to put antenna/radar dish in the telescope requirements. Adding it.
 
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#15
Like Altair posted about separators creating massive drag, there's other things as well that can dramatically effect drag if you've activated it with the exit-trick. Thicker fuel tanks produce much more drag, which may seem rather obvious but it might be a bit more drag than you would expect, so I've been reluctant to build wider than the small tanks unless the rocket starts to look really flimsy, then I just suck it up.

Another thing, and one that will be very useful in Rule 4-A games, is probe drag. I use stacked probes as a requirement in a lot of things, and it turns out probes produce far less drag if you build them sideways. For 5-crew missions you need 4 probes stacked on a command capsule, and in this picture, the rocket on the right has MUCH less drag than the one on the left. (though it will have a slight pull to one side, but is easily compensated)

Screenshot_2019-02-20-12-35-48.png

Also, and this is a thing that I really like about enabling drag since it's realistic, it's highly recommended to not launch at over 2 t/w. In most cases, if you launch with higher than 2 t/w with full drag you will hit a speed cap very quickly where the force of drag exceeds your thrust and you lose DV. Reduce your throttle to around the 2 t/w mark for the initial launch and raise it back up once you get past the thickest part of the atmosphere. It varies sometimes depending on what kind of engine setup you have.

You'll also want to start your turn much later than normal to spend as less time in the thick atmosphere as you can manage.
 
#16
Completed Moon missions 7 and 8 (science probe lander and rover on the Moon) for a 2nd time at Extreme difficulty, this time without ions on the landing stages as per the new ion rule. I'm not proud of the rover design, not one bit. It handles worse than probably anything i've ever made on the moon, but I just wanted to get these mission redo's over with. At the cost of weight I think i'll make all future rovers a bit prettier.

Screenshot_2019-02-19-21-12-03.png Screenshot_2019-02-19-21-06-34.png Screenshot_2019-02-20-15-48-23.png Screenshot_2019-02-20-00-37-20.png

And because I don't want to upload ten billion pictures all at once, and because I think it looks really cool, I took all the rockets I've made so far for this career and lined them up on the launchpad. I present my fleet so far for Odyssey Career Mode, Extreme difficulty:

Screenshot_2019-02-20-15-01-31.png Screenshot_2019-02-20-15-06-11.png

(Yes, it was a pain to line up up like that)

In order from left to right:

1. Hopper P1: Earth mission 1, suborbital probe flight
2. Hopper M1: Earth mission 2, suborbital 1 crew flight
3. Terra P1: Earth mission 3, first probe orbit
4. Terra M1: Earth mission 4, first 1-crew orbit
5. Terra P2: Earth mission 5, first probe communications satellite in MEO
6. Terra M2: Earth mission 6, 2 were flown into LEO for first docking
7. Terra P3: Earth mission 7 and 8, GEO satellite and full 360 degree coverage Earth relay network
8. Luna P1: Moon mission 1, probe flyby of the Moon
9. Luna P2: Moon mission 2, science probe satellite to Moon orbit
10. Luna M1: Moon mission 3, 1-crew flyby of the Moon
11. Luna P3: Moon mission 4, first probe Moon orbit and Earth transfer from the Moon
12. Luna M2: Moon mission 5, first 3-crew Moon orbit and Earth transfer from the Moon
13. Luna P4: Moon mission 6, full 360 degree coverage Moon relay network
14. Luna P5: Moon mission 7, first science probe lander Moon landing
15. Luna P6: Moon mission 8, first science probe rover Moon landing
16. Luna P7: Moon mission 9, first science probe lander Moon landing and return to Earth
17. Luna M3: Moon Mission 10, first 3-crew Moon landing and return to Earth

Missions I have available are Science space station, Space Telescope and the start of Mars missions with a science probe satellite and relay network. Mars transfer is still a ways off and will probably have to time warp, so the first 2 will probably be next.
 
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#17
Completed Moon missions 7 and 8 (science probe lander and rover on the Moon) for a 2nd time at Extreme difficulty, this time without ions on the landing stages as per the new ion rule. I'm not proud of the rover design, not one bit. It handles worse than probably anything i've ever made on the moon, but I just wanted to get these mission redo's over with. At the cost of weight I think i'll make all future rovers a bit prettier.

View attachment 13816 View attachment 13819 View attachment 13817 View attachment 13818

And because I don't want to upload ten billion pictures all at once, and because I think it looks really cool, I took all the rockets I've made so far for this career and lined them up on the launchpad. I present my fleet so far for Odyssey Career Mode, Extreme difficulty:

View attachment 13821 View attachment 13820

(Yes, it was a pain to line up up like that)

In order from left to right:

Hopper P1: Earth mission 1, suborbital probe flight
Hopper M1: Earth mission 2, suborbital 1 crew flight
Terra P1: Earth mission 3, first probe orbit
Terra M1: Earth mission 4, first 1-crew orbit
Terra P2: Earth mission 5, first probe communications satellite in MEO
Terra M2: Earth mission 6, 2 were flown into LEO for first docking
Terra P3: Earth mission 7 and 8, GEO satellite and full 360 degree coverage Earth relay network
Luna P1: Moon mission 1, probe flyby of the Moon
Luna P2: Moon mission 2, science probe satellite to Moon orbit
Luna M1: Moon mission 3, 1-crew flyby of the Moon
Luna P3: Moon mission 4, first probe Moon orbit and Earth transfer from the Moon
Luna M2: Moon mission 5, first 3-crew Moon orbit and Earth transfer from the Moon
Luna P4: Moon mission 6, full 360 degree coverage Moon relay network
Luna P5: Moon mission 7, first science probe lander Moon landing
Luna P6: Moon mission 8, first science probe rover Moon landing
Luna P7: Moon mission 9, first science probe lander Moon landing and return to Earth
Luna M3: Moon Mission 10, first 3-crew Moon landing and return to Earth

Missions I have available are Science space station, Space Telescope and the start of Mars missions with a science probe satellite and relay network. Mars transfer is still a ways off and will probably have to time warp, so the first 2 will probably be next.
0_o oOoOooH dat be puuurdy...
 
#18
I said I was going to to make a more detailed post about the first manned Moon landing mission so here goes. This thing is a behemoth compared to all the rockets that came before it for this career, as you can see in the pictures from my earlier post. And to think this was a relatively light payload compared to what future missions will require, I can't even guess how big things will need to be to push past the drag barrier. We'll see when we get there.

Screenshot_2019-02-16-12-37-56.png

Making orbit and Moon transfering with a dual broadsword stage. A bit overkill for the Moon transfer, but it was either a lot of thrust to get this into orbit or I add yet another stage which would be even more weight from what I was able to figure from testing.

Screenshot_2019-02-16-12-44-31.png

After getting into a 10km Moon orbit, I do a bit of rearranging for the deorbit.

Screenshot_2019-02-16-12-53-16.png
Screenshot_2019-02-16-12-55-14.png

Using 1 of the broadswords to set myself on an impact trajectory (conveniently behind the center of mass roughly), fuel is transferred to the 2 lander tanks and the broadswords are separated and left to crash into the Moon. No space debris is allowed after all.

Screenshot_2019-02-16-12-56-07.png

The dual-lander lands using grasshoppers, remaining fuel transferred to the return craft and the rover undocks. I rped one of the humans getting into the rover and ramping a few craters before coming back and launching the return craft back to Earth.

Screenshot_2019-02-16-12-59-10.png Screenshot_2019-02-16-13-00-35.png

I was really proud of this mission, it presented one of the first real challenges of dealing with the drag. Sadly I had forgotten about the sideways probe method to reduce drag, which might have cut a lot of the weight off, but hindsight is 20/20.
 
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Altaïr

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#19
Nice design, I like how the descent module and the rover cooperate by sharing the landing legs :p
 
#20
Thanks, i'd like to claim the landing leg sharing was the intention from the start but in reality I was desperate to cut weight somewhere to save fuel and the inner landed legs seemed redundant :p. There was not much fuel remaining at all.
 
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#21
Thanks, i'd like to claim the landing leg sharing was the intention from the start but in reality I was desperate to cut weight somewhere to save fuel and the inner landed legs seemed redundant :p. There was not much fuel remaining at all.
You might find this handy. A lot of work went into this:
Our agreed pricing after decent deliberation is as follows:

Fuel 1500/t recoverable 100%

Tanks 500/t recoverable 80%

Fairing cone 4000, 4w 6000, 6w 10000, 8w 15000, 10w 21000,12w 28000, 14w 48000 recoverable 60%

Batteries 400/unit capacity recoverable 70%

Solar panels 8000 small, 20000 big

RTG 18000 each, recoverable 100%

Capsule 240000 recoverable 70%

Probe 80000 recoverable 90%

Docking port small 12000, medium 25000, large 60000 recoverable 50%

Separator 4w 5000, 6w 8000, 8w 20000, 10w 45000, 12w 100000

Side separator 3500

Landing leg 12000 recoverable 70%

Structural part 1w 600, 2w 1200, 4w 2400, 8w 4800 all recoverable 40%

Parachute 5500 recoverable 100% if unused, 30% if used on earth landing

Side parachute 4000 recoverable 100% if unused, 30% if used on earth landing

Wheel small 16000, large 35000 recoverable 100% if unused, 60% if used. Landing on wheels anywhere equals use

Nose cone 4w all 6000, 6w 1200 recoverable 30%

Fuselage 2x6 8000, 3x8 12000 recoverable 40%

Titan 240000 recoverable 40%

Frontier 129000 recoverable 50%

Hawk 92000 recoverable 40%

Broadsword L.F. 44000 recoverable 50%

Grasshopper 8000 recoverable 70%

Ion engine 35000 recoverable 90%

RCS 1250 recoverable 100%
 
#23
That looks pretty dang good. The recovery % thing is also a nice touch, I myself experimented with a currency system in the earliest stages of the career mode that had recoveries too, though my currency was fuel and you would get a bonus fuel reward for landing boosters and such. It became too much work to figure out without more info on what exactly my missions would be and what the average cost to complete them would be.

The Solar Empire, what is that exactly? I've seen some posts here about factions and stuff with some kind of multiplayer thing going on, is that it? How does that work?

I could try using those figures on the rockets I've made, though i'd need to customize it a bit since I have rp parts that are probably worth more as a unit than the parts they're made of. One of the main obstacles of putting currency in my career mode is how much should be payed out for missions. How do you do that for what you're doing?

(I should also say that I probably wont add any currency for a long while even if I had a good one at least until the next version of SFS. It would just disrupt the current challenge too much)
 

Altaïr

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#24
You might find this handy. A lot of work went into this:
Oh yeah, I remember that now. The guy that asked for that wanted to make a sort of career mode too, but he quickly gave up, and it's been a very long time he didn't give some news... :(
@Zoddmark I also tried to make balanced prices and rewards for the jade rabbit challenge, but as you say that's a difficult task. And the main problem is that very few people would accept to count every single piece to calculate the rocket cost.
Personally I chose to only charge fuel, engines and probes, which are the most important parts, but even like that that challenge was not very popular. :confused:
 
#25
Oh yeah, I remember that now. The guy that asked for that wanted to make a sort of career mode too, but he quickly gave up, and it's been a very long time he didn't give some news... :(
@Zoddmark I also tried to make balanced prices and rewards for the jade rabbit challenge, but as you say that's a difficult task. And the main problem is that very few people would accept to count every single piece to calculate the rocket cost.
Personally I chose to only charge fuel, engines and probes, which are the most important parts, but even like that that challenge was not very popular. :confused:
Yeah, I had the same thoughts about the micromanaging, that's why I went with trying the even simpler currency of just fuel. It would achieve largely the same thing but a hundred times easier to manage since all you had to think about to save "money" is efficient DV designs, and just the one factor of fuel is easy to keep track of. It's why I have that one rule in this career mode that you have to use as little fuel as you can manage. I figure with a large enough sample size after progressing through the challenge, maybe one day I could add it. I have a spreadsheet for my game where I keep track of how much fuel I've been using for each of the missions. (note that the big manned moon rocket accounts for about 20% of used fuel for the 19 launches I've done :D)