Shuttle

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Astatium_209

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Hermes

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Not bad, but I'd recommend going all in with the BP editing since you've already delved in ;). If you have time of course.
I have like no idea how to BP edit well. Also is it a requirement to land on the moon?
 

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#5

Pink

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Here is my space shuttle. (Altair approved my team frontier. Mooncrasher just has not given me my badge yet.)

https://sharing.spaceflightsimulator.app/rocket/0Zh1CpjUEe21AoE9QGRKkw

View attachment 96715
How do you personally fly it? We require pictures of that, launch, orbit, payload deployment and landing. And with everything relating to this, the expectation is LEO, not the moon.
When I give payload sizes below, I'm expecting the payload to be taken to LEO.

Before you do the flight pictures, I should tell you that it won't pass unless the payload is bigger or the total mass is decreased.
Generally I expect a minimum of 10% of the lift-off mass to be the payload, so to be proportional for this one, your payload has to be around 60t as a minimum, rough guide. This is a target set because it is a sort of minimum "good" efficiency
If you go the other direction and shrink the shuttle and its booster, for a 10t payload I'd expect the whole thing to have a mass of around 100%.
Of course, it doesn't have to be one or the other. You could reduce the total weight to a more reasonable 300-400t while increasing the payload mass to 30-40t. Any mass balancing is acceptable so long as you reach the goal of 10% of the lift-off mass being payload. :)
Tip: as a first step, reduce the amount of fuel tanks and shape your shuttle more using light components such as fairings and cones, etc.
Then as a second step, increase payload mass, and try a flight. If there is extra fuel left-over when you land, that means it can be even lighter.
Don't forget to keep a healthy low dry mass!
 

Hermes

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The payload is about 64 tons. I also have about 20 parachutes clipped together.
 

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Apologies, it has been a busy week in real life for me.
Technical-wise, it is much improved, more efficient and useful.
Right now the biggest non-clipped payload that can fit is around 30-36t, so that means to reach 10% of the lift-off mass being payload, you need to increase the size of the cargo bay a bit more (hint: increasing the width by small one block would greatly increasehow much you can fit).

Additionally, you can still make it lighter! That way it doesn't need to carry as much payload to LEO to be efficient. This is a viable alternative if making the payload bay bigger is too hard.
Here's how much fuel it had left after I reached orbit with it:
1674997749570.png

And here's how much was left after a very decent deorbit burn:
1674997850730.png

See that 23%? It's useless because the shuttle is already about to re-enter and land. If you reduce that to 5% by taking off fuel tanks in the build screen, then the shuttle is lighter, and you don't need to carry as much payload to be efficient.

If you want to keep the extra fuel to go higher than 31km, then just increase the payload bay size so it can use up that extra fuel to carry more payload to 31km. :)

Additionally, you have 7 probes in your shuttle that are not part of the payload, only used for controlling the shuttle. That's very heavy, it would be much better if you only had 2 probes, one for the shuttle and one for the door. It will turn more slowly, but that is ok. I understand if you want to keep them to pretend that they are a crew cabin, just pointing out something that you can do.
You have 10 RCS in your shuttle, you only need 4 at most.

If taking off the extra probes and RCS makes your shuttle hard to keep pointed in the right direction on re-entry so that it doesn't burn up, then that means you just need to balance your shuttle.
The easiest way to do that is this:
1674998863272.png

Do you see what I did there?
I separated the forward and back tanks, now they are independent. That's not the only way to do it, it's just an example.
Why is this useful?
Remember I said that you should have 5% of fuel left when you re-entry? With two equally sized tanks in your shuttle, that will say 10% if it is all in one tank.
You can transfer that fuel to the forward tank, or the back tank, so that the shuttle doesn't try to spin and burn up. It's a very cool trick when you practise it.
You can even have balance, some in the forward tank and some in the back tank.

"but wait, that means the engines can't access all the fuel when I'm flying to orbit!!"
Then that just means do this. :)
1674999196946.png



So to sum up, you need to make it carry 10% of its launch mass in unclipped payload, either by making the payload bay bigger, or the shuttle lighter, or a combination of both. The stuff I just talked about should give you ideas on how to do that, as well as how to deal with any negative effects that happen because of it.
 

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Sportgus

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#11
Apologies, it has been a busy week in real life for me.
Technical-wise, it is much improved, more efficient and useful.
Right now the biggest non-clipped payload that can fit is around 30-36t, so that means to reach 10% of the lift-off mass being payload, you need to increase the size of the cargo bay a bit more (hint: increasing the width by small one block would greatly increasehow much you can fit).

Additionally, you can still make it lighter! That way it doesn't need to carry as much payload to LEO to be efficient. This is a viable alternative if making the payload bay bigger is too hard.
Here's how much fuel it had left after I reached orbit with it:
View attachment 97442
And here's how much was left after a very decent deorbit burn:
View attachment 97443
See that 23%? It's useless because the shuttle is already about to re-enter and land. If you reduce that to 5% by taking off fuel tanks in the build screen, then the shuttle is lighter, and you don't need to carry as much payload to be efficient.

If you want to keep the extra fuel to go higher than 31km, then just increase the payload bay size so it can use up that extra fuel to carry more payload to 31km. :)

Additionally, you have 7 probes in your shuttle that are not part of the payload, only used for controlling the shuttle. That's very heavy, it would be much better if you only had 2 probes, one for the shuttle and one for the door. It will turn more slowly, but that is ok. I understand if you want to keep them to pretend that they are a crew cabin, just pointing out something that you can do.
You have 10 RCS in your shuttle, you only need 4 at most.

If taking off the extra probes and RCS makes your shuttle hard to keep pointed in the right direction on re-entry so that it doesn't burn up, then that means you just need to balance your shuttle.
The easiest way to do that is this:
View attachment 97446
Do you see what I did there?
I separated the forward and back tanks, now they are independent. That's not the only way to do it, it's just an example.
Why is this useful?
Remember I said that you should have 5% of fuel left when you re-entry? With two equally sized tanks in your shuttle, that will say 10% if it is all in one tank.
You can transfer that fuel to the forward tank, or the back tank, so that the shuttle doesn't try to spin and burn up. It's a very cool trick when you practise it.
You can even have balance, some in the forward tank and some in the back tank.

"but wait, that means the engines can't access all the fuel when I'm flying to orbit!!"
Then that just means do this. :)
View attachment 97447


So to sum up, you need to make it carry 10% of its launch mass in unclipped payload, either by making the payload bay bigger, or the shuttle lighter, or a combination of both. The stuff I just talked about should give you ideas on how to do that, as well as how to deal with any negative effects that happen because of it.
This makes me want to continue my shuttle endeavors...
 

Hermes

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Apologies, it has been a busy week in real life for me.
Technical-wise, it is much improved, more efficient and useful.
Right now the biggest non-clipped payload that can fit is around 30-36t, so that means to reach 10% of the lift-off mass being payload, you need to increase the size of the cargo bay a bit more (hint: increasing the width by small one block would greatly increasehow much you can fit).

Additionally, you can still make it lighter! That way it doesn't need to carry as much payload to LEO to be efficient. This is a viable alternative if making the payload bay bigger is too hard.
Here's how much fuel it had left after I reached orbit with it:
View attachment 97442
And here's how much was left after a very decent deorbit burn:
View attachment 97443
See that 23%? It's useless because the shuttle is already about to re-enter and land. If you reduce that to 5% by taking off fuel tanks in the build screen, then the shuttle is lighter, and you don't need to carry as much payload to be efficient.

If you want to keep the extra fuel to go higher than 31km, then just increase the payload bay size so it can use up that extra fuel to carry more payload to 31km. :)

Additionally, you have 7 probes in your shuttle that are not part of the payload, only used for controlling the shuttle. That's very heavy, it would be much better if you only had 2 probes, one for the shuttle and one for the door. It will turn more slowly, but that is ok. I understand if you want to keep them to pretend that they are a crew cabin, just pointing out something that you can do.
You have 10 RCS in your shuttle, you only need 4 at most.

If taking off the extra probes and RCS makes your shuttle hard to keep pointed in the right direction on re-entry so that it doesn't burn up, then that means you just need to balance your shuttle.
The easiest way to do that is this:
View attachment 97446
Do you see what I did there?
I separated the forward and back tanks, now they are independent. That's not the only way to do it, it's just an example.
Why is this useful?
Remember I said that you should have 5% of fuel left when you re-entry? With two equally sized tanks in your shuttle, that will say 10% if it is all in one tank.
You can transfer that fuel to the forward tank, or the back tank, so that the shuttle doesn't try to spin and burn up. It's a very cool trick when you practise it.
You can even have balance, some in the forward tank and some in the back tank.

"but wait, that means the engines can't access all the fuel when I'm flying to orbit!!"
Then that just means do this. :)
View attachment 97447


So to sum up, you need to make it carry 10% of its launch mass in unclipped payload, either by making the payload bay bigger, or the shuttle lighter, or a combination of both. The stuff I just talked about should give you ideas on how to do that, as well as how to deal with any negative effects that happen because of it.
I am almost done with my modifications. The probes are to help the shuttle turn when it is full since it is so heavy and the RCS is incase the door does not want to reconnect with the shuttle. I have made the cargo bay much bigger and it can lift 80 tons unclipped.
 

Pink

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#14

Astatium_209

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#15

Hermes

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Very very good improvement, the way I fly it it would pass.
How do YOU fly it though? Post an example mission with it and you should get your badge without any more redesigning. :)
Yay!
This thing is starting to look very nice!
Thanks! I may try and make a few more versions for different types of cargo.
 

Pink

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Sportgus

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#23
Your shuttle is great! It took up the 90t no problem and was perfectly stable during reentry. And that hinge for the payload bay door is brilliant.
 

Hermes

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Your shuttle is great! It took up the 90t no problem and was perfectly stable during reentry. And that hinge for the payload bay door is brilliant.
Thanks! I even got it to take 100 tons after a few tries.