Gosh, that's really a lot of effort you've put to ensure we can't have any fun...
There will be no fun on my watch.
Well, yeah, they will surely be hard to implement, specially with the good developers we have, but it will worth the wait.
I agree with the first 30% of that sentence.
That's true. I don't understand why Stef takes so long to make the rest of the Solar System. It really doesn't take that long to make them.
Yeah, I don't understand it either. It's an easy win to implement. Hell, he could just ask Likebot1 for a copy of his original full system pack and paste it into the basic game code.
Job done.
The only reason I can think of that he hasn't done it is because it
is that low hanging fruit and can use it as a filler incase a particular update or patch is going to take longer than expected, he can just throw down a full solar system update and keep the discord off his back 20 minutes longer.
Huh? I thought you people loved challenges? Especially the hardest ones.
It's not a challenge though. Bearing in mind the rockets are basically indestructible unless you twat into something (as in there is no Kraken in SFS to tear your rocket apart if you start doing stupid things like going sideways at mach 7), there is no oxygen/food storage or requirements, the astronauts don't age and are pretty much functionally immortal,
anything you can do with astronauts, can be done without them. Making a 'human rated' rocket in SFS is going to be no harder than making a 'probe only' rocket.
And once again, the WHOLE objective of a space program is to send people to the planets 'so they can do... things'
My point returns. What things? And on the WHOLE OBJECTIVE
No space program is only made of probes
Quite a few space agencies have no manned capabilities. No withstanding only 2 space agencies are even capable of sending manned missions to LEO (Russia and now the US) and no manned expedition has been further than that since the 70s, most other nations only have astronauts cos they can get a lift in a Soyuz. Aside from that, their solo space programs (for example India, China, Israel, ESA etc) are all remote operated exploration vehicles.
A G-force meter will be highly appretiated, yes.
For what use? Not gonna lie, in KSP I use Flight Engineer. That gives me 8 contextual and selectable menus so I can fly with as much data on screen as I can. But that's cos I've a 17" laptop screen to display altitude (AMSL and terrain), speed (ground and orbital, in m/s and mach number) stage Dv, horizontal speed and acceleration, vertical speed and acceleration, current craft mass, rated thrust, specific impulse, engine throttle settings, burn out time, intake air usage, demand and supply, part thermal properties, apoapsis and time to, periapsis and time to, next node dv, time to, burn time, relay signal strength and bounce locations, orbital scan data etc. And all that is just the tip of the iceberg. KSP takes into account so many variables and with the right mods, any and all of it can be displayed somehow.
However.
One indicator I almost never look at is the G-meter. And the only time I do is if I'm in a banked turn in one of my aircraft so I can keep the numbers in single digits so the wings don't come off.
In SFS, all that data is just going to clutter an already small screen with pish numbers you don't actually need. A g-meter isn't needed and will just get in the way.
Horus, I'll definitively find a way, like always. We are speculating over the base of stuff we don't know. A lot will be done before 1.6, so why don't we wait until 1.6 to have the ACTUAL camera system and really discuss how to take the screenshot.
You don't need to wait until 1.6. Try it now. Drop a 4x1 structural part next to your surface base on Venus. And then try and get a picture of that 4x1 so you can tell it's a 4x1, whilst having the entirety of your absolute masterpiece of a base in the same shot. Implementing astronauts isn't going to change the camera. My point is and always will be this. You can not have this tiny object in detail and this massive object in the background using a 2 dimensional world.
You're not going to be able to get a shot like this:
With the tiny Kerbal quite a distance in front of your enormous object. This picture in SFS will have the kerbal stood next to the back wheels. And bearing in mind just how enormous Worldlifter is, he's only about half the size of one of those tyres and you won't see any detail. Your surface bases are much,
much bigger than that aircraft as well, so the effect is going to be even more pronounced.
That's how 3 dimensional perspective works and SFS is never going to overcome that.
But once again, you are making a storm using a cup of water, I mean, making a big issue of something that it is not.
I'm only making an issue because this is one of your reasons for wanting astronauts, so you can have cool pictures like the one above. But I'm trying to show you that won't happen, for the reasons I've pointed out above.
I don't get your point there. You are saying that you are okay with this? Well, FTR, no I don't want '2D KSP' on SFS, but proper habitation modules is something I would love to see in this game. Or just something that allows me to say there are actual physical human beings living there.
Yeah, they're aluminium cylinders with an airlock at each end. If that is good enough for real NASA using real humans, then that's good enough for me in SFS.
Even if the game description says so, we both know there is no one in there. All I'm saying and for I've had to put a lot of effort because I have to quote and edit your posts (joke,
Its not really a problem, I love this kind of serious debates) is that I, and surely other people would like that there is an actual person inside it, not just flat text.
How
do we know no one is in there? Because he doesn't come out? Because you can't see him? You assume there is no one there, I assume there is. And I have more evidence that he is, than you have that he isn't...
a space program IS SUPPOSED TO SEND HUMANS TO DO THESE THINGS
Not so. As I've said, almost all space agencies around the world are content to do this remotely.
Why do we even have space programs anyway? (I mean in RL), not only because of science, and communications, but because we know this planet won't be habitable forever, we know that at some point we will have to jump out of it, if we want to survive as a species. And how are we gonna do that if we have NO experience, cause we haven't send a single manned mission cause drones do everything for us?
Actually, your first reason was correct. The concept of time running out before the Earth becomes
non-vi is a very new one. Apollo wasn't manned just because Elon Musk and Extinction Rebellion reckoned the world is going to be a desolate wasteland in 30 years.
Apollo was manned because a) they were racing the russians to be the first humans on the moon, which required humans to be on board and b) the autonomy didn't exist back in the 60s to conduct the background data and sample collection and bring it back again. Same with the Space Shuttle. It was built like it was because they couldn't automate all of its systems and needed a crew to complete its missions.
And if Elon and the unwashed masses at ER are correct, then we're fucked regardless. No where in the solar system is going to be ready in time for their 'end of the environment' projections, no matter how quickly SpaceX gets Starship ready.
I totally agree that at some point mankind needs to (and will) expand outwards. But look at the concept of species migration from a realistic standpoint dude. It's more than just moving mass from hither to thither. Just look at the real data on it man. Hell, the terraforming alone is waaaay outside of our current and future capabilities. By the time we've even got part way through the prep work, the world is apparently already doomed.
Exploration for the sake of survival against a timer is not going to work. Exploration for the sake of expansion to further humanity is the only real outcome, and for that, we need to get our own house in order first before we go someplace else and fuck that planet up as well.
Hell, I'd rather SpaceX stop fucking around with dreams of Mars and put its considerable talents to asteroid resource mining. Sure, there will be huge issues with financial markets and such doing that, but the big problem with Earth is what we're doing to create resources, mining, pollution, manufacture etc. SpaceX needs to bend itself to making that viable off world (funnily enough, remotely cos cost/simplicity/safety) so we stop fucking the planet we're on over, so we have longer and more resources to then complete the next step which is colonisation. As it is, Earth isn't in a position to support that by itself.
But I digress, we're talking SFS here.
well, unless you want a Terminator-style future
*Starts humming the T2 soundtrack*
Okay, Horus, 2 tons per astronaut. So?
I find very hard to believe YOU, especially you, who loves lift challenges, is making all that storm because of a couple extra tons.
Again, you've missed my point entirely. By waste of mass, I didn't mean I couldn't lift them. Even if they needed 200 tons per person, I'd still get the little bastards to wherever. My point is, and always this
but because all the stuff that can only be done by humans in space.
What things? You still haven't given me a single thing astronauts will be able to do in SFS that can't be done remotely, justifying the 2/20/200/2000tons of extra mass I'm going to need. They're still bowlheaded embuggerances and not worth the dry mass.
In fact, even in basic KSP, there is very little aside planting flags that you actually need a kerbal for. Repairs require mods to work properly (the inventory system, which allows you to store parts in containers, move and install them in EVA. It also allows the only thing I've done with a Kerbal aside from planting flags and inflating a gravity ring (itself a mod), which is blowing up debris using C4 blocks.
Neither of which you can do in SFS without huge changes to the game mechanics.
which we will not see because the game is 2D, BTW
Yeah you will. You'll be able to zoom down to their boots, 2D or 3D, it makes no difference.
