Update Peeks 2

[Altaïr]

People I ask all say that lacking of feature updates for months or even year is the exact reason why they gave up playing. And I'm not talking about one or two people, I'm talking about one or two dozens whom I've seen in some chats. I would even be grateful for just one tiny thing - a radial parachute for command capsule. Don't tell it's hard - people make much crazier stuff in blueprint editors. But I don't use those because why should I play a game outside a game but in filemanager and text editor?

I can understand that, but the problem is that developing a new feature generally takes longer to develop and test than it takes for the average player to be bored. Adding a radial parachute would certainly be easy, but wouldn't drastically change the game. Maybe you would be satisfied, but how many would be satisfied? And how many people would get angry shouting: "Is Stef kidding us? He just updates the game with a f*cking parachute?!"
Even if it's easy, Stef just can't please everybody by fullfilling little requests like this one. If he did this, we would have tons of parts, angled parachutes, several landing legs types, grid fins, countless engines, most of which would be completely overpowered... We could even have cannons, missile launchers, railguns because some people like to build tanks and other stuff. And we would have an autopilot function that litterally plays for you. I can't remember how many times it's been asked.

 

[Horus Lupercal]

If you consider something cool it doesn't mean everyone should do the same.
1.5 killed my interest to rovers and some already deployed ones too. Yes, it brought clipping, but I don't use it much, only when I can't do without it. Also 1.5 brought some problems like parts showing from under the fairings and strange activation zones for parts.
If 1.5 is great for you - lucky you. I'll say it's tottaly good and no problems when it actually is so for me. And I hope staging brings that good, but what I personally want is heat system, power system, astronauts, career mode and infinite building zone.
For those thing I can tell for sure that they will make me play more and enjoy more.

Well, for one thing I rather famously have never updated to 1.5, so that nukes the vast majority of all this.

So ya want a 2D KSP...? And the game isn't interesting enough unless it doesn't have these features...?

Also, why infinite building area? You'll never need it, trust me on this.
I have single payloads larger than anything you have ever conceived of, and even that doesn't fill one half of the extended buildscreen available in the 1.4 mod. The game will not allow you to do an infinite buildscreen. I have an S7+ tablet, and Komodo takes nearly an hour to achieve orbit with the lag it creates even on a device this powerful and it's 'only' a mile tall.
And even if it did, as soon as someone attempted to spawn an object over 5km in length, it would delete itself into the ground.

People I ask all say that lacking of feature updates for months or even year is the exact reason why they gave up playing. And I'm not talking about one or two people, I'm talking about one or two dozens whom I've seen in some chats.

Yeah, we've all seen these people. The types that think a game is only good if it's constantly being updated. I genuinely pity such short attention spans.

I would even be grateful for just one tiny thing - a radial parachute for command capsule.

The problem dude isn't that it is hard. The problem is there is no appeasing you or the crowd. All I want is a radial parachute. And heat transfer. And re-entry. And heat shields. And airbags. And grid fins. And astronauts. And communications. And prefabricated parts. And more music. And career mode. And more missions for career mode. And even more missions for career mode. And expanded skins for the career mode. And naming astronauts. And different fuel types. And wings. And jet engines. And nuclear engines. And VASMIR. And a new launch pad. And staging. And comets. And sharks with fricking laser beams.

You will never, ever be happy, because there will always be a time, no matter how many and how often the updates come, that you will be on here going 'wHEn upDAte, gAmE dEd' cos a month has elapsed and that telescope part you now really really want still hasn't been introduced to the game. Rather than being able to go 'the game is good. So I'll play it.'

So why would changes in the VAB not count then?

I didn't say they don't count. But they changed almost nothing in how the game plays, just how it looks. Which is what I said.

still say 1.5 still introduced a new game mechanic which changed how I play the game, not necessarily how everyone plays.

Part clipping? Only for you unwashed savages over in iOS land. I've been able to overlap things in the VAB, in-game for ages.

Building rockets is like 75% of what I do.

see for me, that is flipped over. I only build a thing if it is going to get used. And I only have...4 or 5? named launch systems? So I don't even have to build them. I just stick the payload onto whichever system will lift it.

which took more than just ten seconds to correct

And however long it takes to return to your original position after re-loading that quicksave...

You of all people know that the previous versions of the game have bugs akin to those of 1.5, that’s an issue development. Not necessarily exclusive to 1.5.

Very true. But in terms of the previous version of SFS (1.4.06), the only real bug is the aerodynamics. Which is an engineering problem I subconsciously work around anyway (just add 1200m/s ΔV to the launch vehicle). But once it's in flight, it's not going to do something weird like shit LOX all over space or tunnel to the Earths core because reasons or whatever.

If he did this, we would have tons of parts, angled parachutes, several landing legs types, grid fins, countless engines

Genuinely think that is what people want. That COD inventory with endless re-mixes from loot boxes spaffed out weekly.

We could even have cannons, missile launchers, railguns because some people like to build tanks and other stuff.

I want this. And multiplayer. So people can spend months refining the 'best war machine evar' and I'll just park a 240,000t launch vehicle on top of it.
Hell, I'll just spawn a 240,000t launch vehicle, turn the engines on at 0.1% throttle and the lag spike will ruin his world for the next week or so if he comes with 5km of me.

 

[Ukrrooter]

You can get bigger build space, but you are never going to have “infinite” build space... unless you can have infinite RAM...

Well, infinite RAM is my problem.

 

[Blazer Ayanami]

I don’t know you guys but I prefer the 1.35/1.4 bugs. I mean,

• Infinite RCS? Don’t use it. Solved.
• Invincible solar panels? Don’t use it. Solved.
• Aerobraking on Jupiter? Don’t use it. (That’s not even realistic, btw). Solved.
• Broken aerodynamics? Add more fuel. Solved.

And maybe not all, but the vast majority of the bugs in previous versions can be easily solved. However, I can’t do nothing about the broken layering system, the ghost trajectories, the fuel disappearing, tHe dOcKInG pOrTs DoCKiNg sIdEwAyS, etc. Thats why I returned to 1.35. At least in 1.35 I can control the bugs and avoid them.

 

[4KidsOneCamera]

I didn't say they don't count. But they changed almost nothing in how the game plays, just how it looks. Which is what I said.

Well, I’m still of the opinion that a new mechanism whether intended or not changed how the game is played. Maybe not for every single player, but for a good chunk of players (including myself) the ability to build in new ways changes how you build, and thereby how you play.

Part clipping? Only for you unwashed savages over in iOS land. I've been able to overlap things in the VAB, in-game for ages.

And people on iOS haven’t. The point is that it opens up new possibilities, on Android it changed nothing that you couldn’t already do, but iOS like you said is different in that respect.

And however long it takes to return to your original position after re-loading that quicksave...

I actually don’t even use quicksaves anymore. As long as you exit the game and close the app within a few seconds of whatever bug you encounter, you can 95% of the time reload back into the game a second or two before that bug occurred, and avoid it. That whole entire process to go from bug to fixed takes about 10 seconds.

Very true. But in terms of the previous version of SFS (1.4.06), the only real bug is the aerodynamics. Which is an engineering problem I subconsciously work around anyway (just add 1200m/s ΔV to the launch vehicle). But once it's in flight, it's not going to do something weird like shit LOX all over space or tunnel to the Earths core because reasons or whatever.

You do have a point, I agree that bugs in general are worse in 1.5, but like I said above 95% of the time I am able to fix it within 10 seconds which is fine with me. Performance improvements (while still not great) are something which offsets some of the bugs in my opinion. You may not see it that way, and that’s fine by me.

 

[Horus Lupercal]

You may not see it that way, and that’s fine by me.

Yeah, I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong. We play differently, you use SFS more as a sandbox building game and you're bloody good at it. I use SFS to test my numbers and mission planning against the spaceflight simulation engine, the building is more a means to an end rather than the objective itself.
There is a huge part of the community that are just here to build a shape and whilst that's whatever they want to do, but it is just like the huge part of the community (and by extension into 3D, KSP) obsessed with making weapons. Cos whilst you can make projectiles and stuff and use certain mechanisms and exploits to simulate (in the loosest possible way) warfare, part of my brain (the super practical side) is like 'are you going to...you know...build a rocket...in this here spaceflight simulation game...?
Naw, I want to build battleships and tanks pew pew *separator guns*
And aside from my thoughts on the strategic insanity of relying on surface equipment and separator guns in orbital warfare, I can't help but think 'if that's all you want to do, then wouldn't Into The Depths be a better platform for you?'.

Mate. I will never (and can never, realistically) tell you how to use the app. Personally, I like the shit you make. But I'm from that SFS v1.1 school where the game was only a spaceflight simulation. No rovers, space stations, separator guns, blueprint editing, docking, coloured tanks, buildings, ground installations.
The grid squares were 4m wide slots and you had a choice of either engine, fuel, capsule or landing leg to put in each slot and all you could do in the game was try and fly into space and everything the game has introduced since is secondary to and in service of that aim.
Not that I think making a building is bad. I'm 3D modelling my new house from floor plans as we speak. And jokes aside, I also have extremely large and complex launch facilities. But that is in service to the aim of launching rockets off it and that is the sole reason I spent weeks making it work rather than making it look nice.

It's why everything I build is ugly as fuck, as long as it moves and keeps moving for as long as I'd intended it to.

s long as you exit the game and close the app within a few seconds of whatever bug you encounter, you can 95% of the time reload back into the game a second or two before that bug occurred, and avoid it. That whole entire process to go from bug to fixed takes about 10 seconds.

Ergh, I have nightmares of the game crashing during the Komodo launches and sending me back 'a few seconds' to the last time it'd updated the persistent file. Which when you're on 2-3 seconds per frame and the game thinks it's running at 60fps, a random inflight game crash would set you back several minutes or even back onto the launchpad.
Took me hours to get one, consistent video from ground to orbit.

 

[4KidsOneCamera]

Yeah, I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong. We play differently, you use SFS more as a sandbox building game and you're bloody good at it. I use SFS to test my numbers and mission planning against the spaceflight simulation engine, the building is more a means to an end rather than the objective itself.
There is a huge part of the community that are just here to build a shape and whilst that's whatever they want to do, but it is just like the huge part of the community (and by extension into 3D, KSP) obsessed with making weapons. Cos whilst you can make projectiles and stuff and use certain mechanisms and exploits to simulate (in the loosest possible way) warfare, part of my brain (the super practical side) is like 'are you going to...you know...build a rocket...in this here spaceflight simulation game...?
Naw, I want to build battleships and tanks pew pew *separator guns*
And aside from my thoughts on the strategic insanity of relying on surface equipment and separator guns in orbital warfare, I can't help but think 'if that's all you want to do, then wouldn't Into The Depths be a better platform for you?'.

Mate. I will never (and can never, realistically) tell you how to use the app. Personally, I like the shit you make. But I'm from that SFS v1.1 school where the game was only a spaceflight simulation. No rovers, space stations, separator guns, blueprint editing, docking, coloured tanks, buildings, ground installations.
The grid squares were 4m wide slots and you had a choice of either engine, fuel, capsule or landing leg to put in each slot and all you could do in the game was try and fly into space and everything the game has introduced since is secondary to and in service of that aim.
Not that I think making a building is bad. I'm 3D modelling my new house from floor plans as we speak. And jokes aside, I also have extremely large and complex launch facilities. But that is in service to the aim of launching rockets off it and that is the sole reason I spent weeks making it work rather than making it look nice.

It's why everything I build is ugly as fuck, as long as it moves and keeps moving for as long as I'd intended it to.




Ergh, I have nightmares of the game crashing during the Komodo launches and sending me back 'a few seconds' to the last time it'd updated the persistent file. Which when you're on 2-3 seconds per frame and the game thinks it's running at 60fps, a random inflight game crash would set you back several minutes or even back onto the launchpad.
Took me hours to get one, consistent video from ground to orbit.

Glad we are in agreement on that. I too remember back to the early days of the game where you had the square build grid, five six parts, and that was it. I think that alone serves as a perfect example of why you don’t need a overly complex game to make something enjoyable. If it’s got the physics, and a few things to play around with then that’s all that really matters. The great thing about being a sandbox game and all is that there is no point to it. Everything you do in the game revolves around what you want to do, whether than be maximizing the performance of giant craft (which by the way I would have no patience to spend hours getting to orbit), or just building stuff.

 

[Horus Lupercal]

I think that alone serves as a perfect example of why you don’t need a overly complex game to make something enjoyable.

Yes. I've said it here and elsewhere, I am in the opinion that if you over-complicate SFS to the levels of KSP then you'll kill 70% of the fanbase. I like that the RCS is super forgiving, the CoM/thrust/aerodynamics are generally unimportant, the Kraken doesn't eat your craft at random. It's a pick up and play game that can also be enjoyed by people that work in space agencies.

The great thing about being a sandbox game and all is that there is no point to it.

And this. Career mode will be the single biggest mistake Stef makes. There will never be enough missions to satisfy demand (I mean, look at the rank system here. Some of the challenges are genuinely difficult and most people smash through them in a week) and it just gives yet another avenue for complaints and steers resources away for more important things like bug stomping. A sandbox allows infinite creative expression. If you're creative, you make your own missions.
If you're really creative, you can make missions for others...

which by the way I would have no patience to spend hours getting to orbit

I wish I logged how much time went into that. The pre-design concept took...an hour or 2 to refine. Physical VAB design was roughly an hour. Spawn and zero g assembly another 5 hours. One single, no mistakes launch takes 45 minutes from engines on to LEO cut off. Getting that first no mistakes launch...all day. Because of its unique design and the horrible amounts of lag, it took 3 flights just to figure out what kind of launch profile suited it and how to stage it best.
Like my usual hi drag profile (which is what I expected a 64m wide rocket to be) 'vertical to 10,000m' didn't work cos the damn thing is so efficient. So had to restart, go for a more flat and aggressive flight and ended up an entire stage, 1100m/s ΔV and 34,000tons over-budget from the plan.

 

[TtTOtW]

Like my usual hi drag profile (which is what I expected a 64m wide rocket to be) 'vertical to 10,000m' didn't work cos the damn thing is so efficient. So had to restart, go for a more flat and aggressive flight and ended up an entire stage, 1100m/s ΔV and 34,000tons over-budget from the plan.

The momentum that comes with that amount of mass makes drag irrelevant in the setting of SFS. If you can lift it, you're good to go. Another reason I LOVE big shuttles.

 

[Earl]

The momentum that comes with that amount of mass makes drag irrelevant in the setting of SFS. If you can lift it, you're good to go. Another reason I LOVE big shuttles.

unless you do something stupid like spam RCS, yeah

 

[Blazer Ayanami]

SFS is broken. A monster as big as Komodo would create millions of Newtons of Drag Force (I have no idea how to measure the drag, but you get the idea), and you guys tell me SFS just ignores them?

SFS is broken.

 

[Horus Lupercal]

SFS is broken. A monster as big as Komodo would create millions of Newtons of Drag Force (I have no idea how to measure the drag, but you get the idea), and you guys tell me SFS just ignores them?

SFS is broken.

Yeah, drag force is measured as a force in newtons.

To be fair mate, TtTOtW is right. Komodos enormous mass actually helps it, for the same reason why Tallboy bombs were able to break the sound barrier (and everything else it touched).
Terminal velocity is determined not just by size and drag coefficient. You take the objects mass into account. This is why when you drop me out of an aircraft at 16,000ft, I only hit around 140-190mph, where as Tallboy dropped from a similar height is supersonic.
Think of it this way. Drag is force, in the same way as thrust. Komodo, for its size, is a relatively clean design and has a half decent coefficient. And whilst that will translate still to a lot of newtons of drag force, that drag force is acting upon a quarter million tons of mass and has less effect than it would against a very draggy, but very light rocket.
As that drag force increases as it accelerates (and it's not accelerating quickly either), it doesn't have as much effect on it as it does a light rocket in much the same way as the increase in force to mass as in the other direction, thrust. Even after burning 100,000t of fuel at booster separation, the TWR never breaks 2.1 despite the 2.7 million kN of thrust because it's still so heavy at that point (130,000tons). A very light rocket will transition from a low TWR to a high TWR very quickly, accelerating quicker and getting stamped on much harder by drag losses.
Bearing in mind dude, it flies with drag properly enabled (because I'm using zero g assembly, I have to return to the menu to turn all that off and re-set the drag system). It flew so well I thought I'd fucked it up the first time. So re-loaded the quicksave (setting me back 20 minutes of flight to booster separation), made sure I entered and re-entered the game and did it again.

 

[Altaïr]

Drag is totally decorrelated from mass indeed, it only depends on the rocket shape (and air density and velocity of course). Well, unless you run SFS 1.4, in this case it's calculated in real time by a flat-earther. But even in this case it doesn't depend on mass. The result is that a very heavy rocket is less affected, and that's how I can do that:

 

[TtTOtW]

Believe me, the wind tunnel (did it in 1.4, remember?) taught me a hell of a lot about SFS dynamics. And I know EXACTLY what effect mass has on an identically shaped projectile. The entire freefall speed vs altitude curve of any projectile at all is absolutely unchanging, despite mass or its individual drag coefficient. Except for one thing. With reduction in mass or increase in Cd, the entire curve shifts as is to a higher altitude. The converse is equally true.

 

[Horus Lupercal]

Don't mind me. There's no new updates, I'm just conducting an experiment for science.

Hi all of you that only visit the forum because they get a notification on this thread.

 

[4KidsOneCamera]

Don't mind me. There's no new updates, I'm just conducting an experiment for science.

Hi all of you that only visit the forum because they get a notification on this thread.

Oh my god...this is not what I was expecting, but it’s absolutely brilliant!

 

[Horus Lupercal]

About a year an half ago I figured it out. Certain members only appeared if there was a comment on this thread. Because you can set up email notifications if certain threads get traffic, it means they can filter and ignore all the other stuff and just concentrate it on here.

 

[Lord Krishna]

Don't mind me. There's no new updates, I'm just conducting an experiment for science.

Hi all of you that only visit the forum because they get a notification on this thread.

Oh my God, I'm desperately trying to renew myself to troll the forum in a new way and feed the trial mods, and I didn't even think about THAT!!!

My congratulations, you have all the respect of the mod fodder team!

 

[Horus Lupercal]

Oh my God, I'm desperately trying to renew myself to troll the forum in a new way and feed the trial mods, and I didn't even think about THAT!!!

My congratulations, you have all the respect of the mod fodder team!

That my dear rayman, is because you believe shitposting your ally.

But you merely adopted the troll.

I was born to it. Moulded by it. I did not learn good manners til I was already a man.

 

[Lord Krishna]

That my dear rayman, is because you believe shitposting your ally.

But you merely adopted the troll.

I was born to it. Moulded by it. I did not learn good manners til I was already a man.

Who would have believed that even a troll could learn from Horus?

Please, teach me your art, show me the way of the troll!

 

[Horus Lupercal]

Who would have believed that even a troll could learn from Horus?

I teach many abilities some consider unnatural.

 

[Test User]

Don't mind me. There's no new updates, I'm just conducting an experiment for science.

Hi all of you that only visit the forum because they get a notification on this thread.

So you say that by just replying to this thread we can bring some guys here?

 

[Horus Lupercal]

So you say that by just replying to this thread we can bring some guys here?

Yep. Like moths to a flame.

 

[Test User]

G

Yep. Like moths to a flame.

reat! Let’s bring some guys here!

Hey, Ukrrooter!

 

[Mars Pathfinder]

G

reat! Let’s bring some guys here!

Hey, Ukrrooter!

hey! stop pinging people.. and also stop being a nonsense member