ESM Entry for Team Frontier

[EmberSkyMedia]

STAGE 1 of 3 - Space Station (4 Launches) have been completed!

In my mission submission for "Floater" I launched 4 identical payloads, 14.17tonne Cube-ish Station Segments into LEO. This was accomplished by using a two stage rocket with the first stage powered by the HAWK engine and the second stage by a Valiant engine to lift payload into suborbital position. Payload was equipped with a Kolibri Engine for use in final LEO insertion and later stages orbital manuveurs. Hardest part was finding the station in orbit each flight (I know I know...)

Launch 1 - No issues, set up in an initial low earth orbit with low eccentricity.

Launch 2 - Tried to come up from lower orbit, had to wait a LONG time for close pass. Success but a lot of fuel was used and time spent.

Launch 3 - Higher Orbit approach, more eccentricity allowed for faster approach, also timed launch and Flyby far better so I didn't have to chase the first station modules around the earth as much.

Launch 4 - Textbook until the Kolibri engine ignited on final appoarch due to an accidental spacebar press (thus why I'm playing catch-up in second last photo rather than slowing down appoarch). Only after did I remember I was doing this mission for "Frontier" not "Titan" so I forgot to change the Texture.

No failed launches!

No functional non-DLC / cheats / mod content was used.

Now I just need to figure out the Voyager mission... 9 attempts so far, getting closer to success but finace is starting to give me the evil eye on cost overruns. Trying to secure funding from interested Martian parties for the last mission.

 

[Pink]

Sorry, that isn't a space station.

It needs to have at minimum a power module, a habitat module, a propulsion module and an escape craft that can land back on earth.
And everything needs to be arranged so that well located docking ports are available for reasonably sized craft, often this means a dedicated docking module if you're not careful.

 

[EmberSkyMedia]

Sorry, that isn't a space station.

It needs to have at minimum a power module, a habitat module, a propulsion module and an escape craft that can land back on earth.
And everything needs to be arranged so that well located docking ports are available for reasonably sized craft, often this means a dedicated docking module if you're not careful.

Can I add those to the existing (i guess propulsion modules) or do I have to start from scratch?
(AKA 2-3 more lifts to get those modules in place or restart with 4).

 

[Pink]

You could add them on I suppose, but these won't count to the launches because they didn't launch anything required.
Overall seems neater to start over.

 

[EmberSkyMedia]

"This is what happens when you pick the lowest bidder" The client complained, "Its not even a decent orbit... collisons happen all the time at 35-45KM LEO."

2nd Submission for Station Mission - Frontier Station 5

Due to budget constraits, we opted for a 3 in 1 launch and a heavy lift launch for our 4 launches.

Launch 1 - Power Module
its the heaviest of the first 3 payloads as its full of fuel, therefore it was used to determine the orbit ~250km

Launch 2 - Escape Pod
Before we have people live in the habitat module, its best we first ensure their is a safe way for them to get down!

Launch 3 - Habitat Module
Only the back section of the habitate module contains fuel, so this is pretty straight forward.

Launch 4 - Propostion and Super Struture Array
I got lucky with this one... actually ran out of fuel as I was RCS to the station... max payload to that orbit I guess. So the station actually had to be manuvered to capture the module. Afterwards I used the "drone" pod to rearrange the station components then transfered fuel into the proplosion module.

Bonus: Initial Submission
So I decided to move the initial submission into a higher orbit and catch the new Frontier Station, safer for everyone really.

Let me know if I did it correctly this time.

 

[EmberSkyMedia]

Bonus 2: Client might want that Proplusion tank filled up...

 

[EmberSkyMedia]

May need some advice/help for Voyager mission, even with narrow passes on earth (30.4km) and tiny burns and decent exit angles I'm still falling short of terminal velocity... Really racking my brain as I'm pretty sure I'm not that far off, but even with (quite) a few rocket designs tested (these are the two best performers i have as shown in the orbital photo). One rocket relies on multi-stage to reach sub-orbit and one high efficent engine to LEO, the other uses 2 high efficency engines to reach LEO. I've also played around with fuel balance between the stages.
Reach LEO
Elongate Orbit to edge of Earth Space
When orbit is lined up (as best I can, sometimes takes a few years for things to line up) full burn.
Am I missing a step?

 

[Pink]

Bonus 2: Client might want that Proplusion tank filled up...
View attachment 86370
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View attachment 86374 View attachment 86375

A bit messy, and rather excessive amounts of RCS and engines (hint, you could make a drone to carry things around so not everything needs RCS and engine), but it appears to pass.

May need some advice/help for Voyager mission, even with narrow passes on earth (30.4km) and tiny burns and decent exit angles I'm still falling short of terminal velocity... Really racking my brain as I'm pretty sure I'm not that far off, but even with (quite) a few rocket designs tested (these are the two best performers i have as shown in the orbital photo). One rocket relies on multi-stage to reach sub-orbit and one high efficent engine to LEO, the other uses 2 high efficency engines to reach LEO. I've also played around with fuel balance between the stages.
Reach LEO
Elongate Orbit to edge of Earth Space
When orbit is lined up (as best I can, sometimes takes a few years for things to line up) full burn.
Am I missing a step?
View attachment 86378 View attachment 86379 View attachment 86377

View attachment 86376

Are you doing the entire burn at LEO? Need to do it very close to Earth for the Oberth effect.
And make sure your rocket stages are optimal (often 3 stages works, with reaching LEO with fuel still in the second stage)

 

[Altaïr]

May need some advice/help for Voyager mission, even with narrow passes on earth (30.4km) and tiny burns and decent exit angles I'm still falling short of terminal velocity... Really racking my brain as I'm pretty sure I'm not that far off, but even with (quite) a few rocket designs tested (these are the two best performers i have as shown in the orbital photo). One rocket relies on multi-stage to reach sub-orbit and one high efficent engine to LEO, the other uses 2 high efficency engines to reach LEO. I've also played around with fuel balance between the stages.
Reach LEO
Elongate Orbit to edge of Earth Space
When orbit is lined up (as best I can, sometimes takes a few years for things to line up) full burn.
Am I missing a step?
View attachment 86378 View attachment 86379 View attachment 86377

View attachment 86376

From what you say the way you manage your burn from LEO seems good, but you probably used too much fuel to reach orbit. The Hawk engine is a good choice for boosters and first stage, but you feed them with a lot of fuel, which means that you'll rely a lot on them. You should make them shorter. Ideally, you shouldn't rely on Hawk engines anymore once you passed 800-1000 m/s. From this point, achieving orbit is more efficiently done with efficient engines like Valiant or Frontier.

You can add an intermediate stage powered by a Frontier or 2 Valiant for example, or you can use a central core powered by efficient engines assisted by boosters for the beginning of the flight. If your flight trajectory is efficient, it should be good.

 

[EmberSkyMedia]

achieving orbit is more efficiently done with efficient engines like Valiant or Frontier.

Am I allowed to use the Frontier Engine? (I thought for the challenges I was limited to items in non-DLC - I'm on PC so I didn't know the Frontier engine was an option as its not on the basic part list)

 

[Pink]

There is no such restriction, you can use it.

 

[EmberSkyMedia]

Voyager is Stumping me, Despite following tutorial and 30.1km burns I'm still falling short the mark...

So I decided to go to Mars Instead... (yeah...) also on a clean solar system as I had a few mid orbit collisions with the Voyager attempts.

The Rocket
- Two Stage Accent Launcher with an Orbiter and Planet Hopper Payload (which I already tested on Earth & Moon)

Launch Pad
- Nice and Clean now!

Mid-Flight Seperation
- Just cause it looks cool!

Earth Orbit
- Look Ma its no longer a mine field of debris!

Moon Slingshot Manuveur
- As I'm mainly running ion engines for interplanetary travel I need all the help I can get.
- I swear there is a spaceship in that photo somewhere... (like 3 pixels wide)

Mars Encounter
- After a very (very) long Ion burn Mars is in my sights!

Deimos Fly By
- Could you actually belive I though I could slingshot (to slowdown) off it??? Yeah not a chance... blink and you'll miss it.
- Also I came in retrograde orbit to the Martian system so I'm counterclockwise!

Martian High Orbit
- Had to use the Valiant Engine on the Orbiter to slow down enough to reach orbit.

Phobos Fly By
- Because you can't have one without the other...

Very Low Mars Orbit
-Lowered the Orbit of the Orbiter so I only needed a few seconds of RCS to drop the planet hopper into the upper atmosphere.

Martian Decent
- Fueled up the Planet Hopper to full from Orbiter reserves.
- Very different than Earth, I was smashing that deploy button on those parachutes all the way down!

Martian Surface
- Take a picture, we didn't stay long. No rock samples either... not sure if there is enough fuel as there is!

Mars Accent & Redevous with the Orbiter
- I really fumbled this one up... I should raised the orbiter's orbit first before trying to dock with it... what a mess.
- Tranferred remaining hopper feul back to the orbiter.
- We barely got out of there alive or with any gas as I had to swap over to the orbiter and its ion engines when I realized the hopper fuel would of been completely drained in the orbital manuvuers... no RCS were used... so I had... 3.4% left for the journey home. Ion Engines for the Win???

Earth Approach
- After several Ion burns around Mars and in inter-planetary space, finally managed to connect with Earth Influence
- Yep you read that right... 0.6% left in the tank... I mean I could of cut it closer but now I really only have 1 option...

Direct Earth Decent
- Cross your fingers and hope for the best! I came in well above 3200m/s
- The plan was to use atomospheric drag to drop me into a decay orbit... but appeartly I can in steep enough I was captured.
- Wait until you see the achievement for temperature below! Talk about LUCKY!

Safe Landing and Achievements
- Not bad for my very first time going to Mars...I got back, and that's saying something!

Now to figure out that final burn on the Voyager Quest...

 

[EmberSkyMedia]

Two final Notes (not sure this matters or not)
1. I needed to use some of the orbiter fuel to reach space and then LEO. This likely could be optimized further in the future; in case you were wondering why I left with a half full tank of gas.
2. Once in LEO I tossed the stage intermediary between the Orbiter and the Planet hopper before continuing onward, basically to minimize the weight of the craft as much as possible. Used the docking port force and capsule tork to avoid using the RCS, so that's a win.

 

[Pink]

I recommend you redo it with at least some of the improvements I talk about below. You really need to get an idea of what an efficient mission is like, so you can gain useful experience.

Spoiler: Piloting

There's lots of room for improvement here, without even changing the rocket. You need to pilot better if you want to have a hope of doing voyager quest.

You have the part of getting to LEO "optimal" for this rocket (aka fly straight up on first stage, then go sideways on the second stage). It's terrible for efficency, but necessary with your rocket because of the overpowered first stage and the underpowered second stage.
If you had a more balanced rocket, you ought to follow the given game trajectory until you got more experience.

Scrap the moon slingshot. Because unless you're very good at it, it uses more fuel than it saves. Even then the gain is almost nothing, so it's generally not worth it. Besides it won't be allowed for Voyager quest.

Should not need the ions with the rocket as-is. It's doable without them.


I see your third stage has 10% fuel when you detach from it and land on Mars.
At that point, forget about it. You don't need it afterwards.
Without it, you should be able to use JUST the lander to get back to Earth, and arrive at Earth with most of the fuel left unused in the second stage of the lander.

The tricky part here is landing on Mars with using only a few percent of fuel. The way to do it is lower your orbit to 10km, instead of aiming for the ground. That gives you more time in the atmosphere to bleed off speed passively.
And time it so that you land at one of the Planitia, they're low plains and give you more time to slow down in the lower atmosphere than landing near a mountain.
In this case you should only need to turn on your engine for a few seconds just before you land.

You should have like most of the fuel left in your lander's second stage when you get back to Earth, but you don't need it for slowing down. Aim for the upper-middle (like 20km) atmosphere when you re-enter, max temperature ought to be lower than 5700*C.


Finally, read up about Oberth effect, it saves a lot of fuel if you do your big burns as close as possible to the planets you're departing from/arriving to. Think like your trajectory/orbit almost touching the atmosphere (like 31km on Earth) when you turn on the engine.

Spoiler: The rocket

Your rocket is grossly misconfigured. With that much lift-off mass and the only payload returning to Earth being a capsule, you should not come anywhere near to running out of fuel.

Suggested fixes:

Reduce the TWR of the first stage down to 1.6 or so by re-engining it. You're wasting too much fuel to aerodynamic losses and engine dry mass.

The second stage should be bigger than the third stage.
Swap the big tanks from one stage to the other, and make the second stage have an extra frontier because currently it doesn't have enough acceleration to reasonably escape the atmosphere if you use a first stage with a reasonable TWR and follow the flightpath the game provides.

The third stage should be smaller now with the 8 wide fuel tank from the second stage.
Swap the valiant for a frontier, there's no need to scrape by with so little TWR.
Get rid of the ions, they're a crutch in this case and you don't need them.

The lower stage of the lander should NOT have a Hawk.
Mars and the moon have a thin or non-existant atmosphere, so you can get by efficiently with a higher TWR. But the mass of your lander is only 50 tonnes, 120 tonnes of thrust on Mars means a TWR of 6(!).
All you need here is a single Valiant, it will give a TWR of greater than 2 on Mars. Remember, parachutes to do all the work on landing.

Leave the top stage of the lander unchanged for simplicity, but ideally you would move the mars landing parachutes to the bottom stage and leave them behind on Mars when you bin the lower stage, they're deadweight afterwards.
And the top stage doesn't really need such a big fuel tank, a 2*2 tank is more than enough.

 

[EmberSkyMedia]

I recommend you redo it with at least some of the improvements I talk about below. You really need to get an idea of what an efficient mission is like, so you can gain useful experience.

Thank you for the valuable feedback, I guess I over packed on that journey!
I made various changes as you suggested and I Re-submit for your consideration.

Launcher
- Now more Streamlined with better stage balancing.
- Smaller Engine on Planet Hopper & Parachutes moved to lower stage.
- Removed Ion Drives (they were at pain/time-waster anyway at max 3X under excelleration)

Earth Orbits
- LEO has a bit of fuel left in the second stage, was used for first Oberth burn then discard.
- High Eccentric Orbit (ready for Mars Trajectory Escape)
- Hop skip and a jump over to Mars

Mars Orbit and Insertion
- This time I didn't take the sight-seeing tour, adjusted the orbit with the inter-planetary stage
- Transferred all remaining fuel to the lower stage, better aerodynamics (vs being top heavy and having the parachutes flip the craft upside down).
- Once Detached used just enough RCS at Apoapsis to catch the atmosphere with decent amount of drag this wouldn't take all day. 3rd pass became suborbital.

Surface of Mars
- Its red...
-Transferred fuel back to the top stage leaving 14% left in the bottom stage for initial take-off

Earth Return
- LMO
- Eccentric Mars Orbit
- Inter-planetary Journey aimed at a 18.2Km direct re-entry
- Tossed the last stage (27% fuel... plenty left over!)

Achievements

 

[EmberSkyMedia]

VOYAGER III
Using Everything I learned from the Mars mission and advice I got form Mooncrasher & Altaïr I managed to complete the Voyager Quest with ease (it only took 2 attempts!)

Launcher - 259.38t

LEO Orbit

Escape Velocity
40.000.000 km @ 3873m/s
100.000.000 km @ 2455.8m/s

Boldly Go were two other Crafts have gone before!

If accepted this completes my Team Frontier application.

 

[Altaïr]

VOYAGER III
Using Everything I learned from the Mars mission and advice I got form Mooncrasher & Altaïr I managed to complete the Voyager Quest with ease (it only took 2 attempts!)

Launcher - 259.38t
View attachment 86474

LEO Orbit
View attachment 86475

Escape Velocity
40.000.000 km @ 3873m/s
100.000.000 km @ 2455.8m/s
View attachment 86476
View attachment 86480

Boldly Go were two other Crafts have gone before!
View attachment 86479

If accepted this completes my Team Frontier application.

To me this is good, by very little, but it passes. Congratulations

Boldly Go were two other Crafts have gone before!

Five actually. Pioneer 10, Pioneer 11 and New Horizons are also on an Sun escape trajectory.

 

[Pink]

Thank you for the valuable feedback, I guess I over packed on that journey!
I made various changes as you suggested and I Re-submit for your consideration.

Launcher
- Now more Streamlined with better stage balancing.
- Smaller Engine on Planet Hopper & Parachutes moved to lower stage.
- Removed Ion Drives (they were at pain/time-waster anyway at max 3X under excelleration)
View attachment 86457
View attachment 86458

Earth Orbits
- LEO has a bit of fuel left in the second stage, was used for first Oberth burn then discard.
- High Eccentric Orbit (ready for Mars Trajectory Escape)
- Hop skip and a jump over to Mars
View attachment 86459
View attachment 86460
View attachment 86461
View attachment 86462

Mars Orbit and Insertion
- This time I didn't take the sight-seeing tour, adjusted the orbit with the inter-planetary stage
- Transferred all remaining fuel to the lower stage, better aerodynamics (vs being top heavy and having the parachutes flip the craft upside down).
- Once Detached used just enough RCS at Apoapsis to catch the atmosphere with decent amount of drag this wouldn't take all day. 3rd pass became suborbital.
View attachment 86463

Surface of Mars
- Its red...
-Transferred fuel back to the top stage leaving 14% left in the bottom stage for initial take-off
View attachment 86465

Earth Return
- LMO
- Eccentric Mars Orbit
- Inter-planetary Journey aimed at a 18.2Km direct re-entry
- Tossed the last stage (27% fuel... plenty left over!)
View attachment 86466
View attachment 86467
View attachment 86468

Achievements
View attachment 86469
View attachment 86470
View attachment 86471

A very clear improvement, well done. You deserve the Mars badge.

My main comment is that you encountered Mars with a very unfavorable trajectory that made you swing by Mars at almost twice the speed you could have with a more favourable trajectory. This caused you to use a lot of fuel!

You can read more about this here, it's about Mercury but the same principles apply.

VOYAGER III
Using Everything I learned from the Mars mission and advice I got form Mooncrasher & Altaïr I managed to complete the Voyager Quest with ease (it only took 2 attempts!)

Launcher - 259.38t
View attachment 86474

LEO Orbit
View attachment 86475

Escape Velocity
40.000.000 km @ 3873m/s
100.000.000 km @ 2455.8m/s
View attachment 86476
View attachment 86480

Boldly Go were two other Crafts have gone before!
View attachment 86479

If accepted this completes my Team Frontier application.

Wow, not much margin there! Just a few m/s above the threshold.
In this case you could easily do a bit better by exchanging the upper frontier for a Valiant to lower the dry mass of your upper stage and gain some dV. With a rocket configuration like this, where the core almost gets you to orbit, you don't need a very powerful upper stage. It's easy to compensate with multiple passes, taking advantage of Oberth effect.

You get the badge though, it passes, like Altaïr says.