Questions for Realictis level of difficulty
- Thread starter Catalyst_Kh
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Trying to get to Mars at Realistic, no success so far. This time slingshoting from Moon with 86+ tons:
I brought to Moon 77-82 tons in previous attempts, but never more than 82 so far, but this time 86+. I believe my take of trajectory is total failure and this time i just randomly got lucky guessed more optimal curvature. I might not even be able to repeat it.
If you know any good guide for take off strategy, please share it.
I saw at some pictures at this forum moon and earth with very nice realistic textures on it, like a photo. Please give me the link to that, i very much want to install it. Blue and grey circles are very sad.
I brought to Moon 77-82 tons in previous attempts, but never more than 82 so far, but this time 86+. I believe my take of trajectory is total failure and this time i just randomly got lucky guessed more optimal curvature. I might not even be able to repeat it.
If you know any good guide for take off strategy, please share it.
I saw at some pictures at this forum moon and earth with very nice realistic textures on it, like a photo. Please give me the link to that, i very much want to install it. Blue and grey circles are very sad.
Brought two Gas stations to Mars orbit for next manned flight. I want to visit all 3 planets at once in one mission, before going home with my astronaut. Like some kind of record. 
I want to try to perform all Jupiter missions at once in one flight too, before going home.
First payload to Mars SOI was 59 tons and second 62 tons. With second i got very lucky and efficient trajectory after slingshot from moon, thus i suspect that even after better taking off to LEO trejectory it will not be possible to bring much more than 62. Maybe 63 tons of payload at the very best.
Second gas station needed for complicity, because they are too heavy and i had to launch them half empty, so now i will have one big and full gas stating after second delivery.
I want to try to perform all Jupiter missions at once in one flight too, before going home.First payload to Mars SOI was 59 tons and second 62 tons. With second i got very lucky and efficient trajectory after slingshot from moon, thus i suspect that even after better taking off to LEO trejectory it will not be possible to bring much more than 62. Maybe 63 tons of payload at the very best.
Second gas station needed for complicity, because they are too heavy and i had to launch them half empty, so now i will have one big and full gas stating after second delivery.
Guys, please suggest correct mod for full solar system in 1:1 scale to reality.
I opened that part of forum: Planets and Worlds And there are so many nice mods, but some is outdated and will not work with newer SFS version and other's have different scale for solar system, like IRIS.
Please help me to find mod with exact 1:1 scaling of all objects and distances on solar system, with all gravity and orbits and trajectories realistic and 1:1 too. Which will work with newer versions of SFS.
Mod doesn't have to be perfect, it might miss something, but realistic 1:1 scaling in everything is mandatory. Is there such mod?
For example, Astria said at that link below, that most mods doesn't work with Realistic level of difficulty or have not 1:1 scale. And i want exactly one that works with Realistic level: [REQUEST] Looking for a complete solar system pack that works on steam edition realistic mode
There are so many different recreations of solar system for SFS, i have no idea which will work with newer version and Realistic level, and it is not always said there if mod is actual 1:1 scale to reality in the first place.
Please help. I want to try other planets and moons after i am finished with Jupiter and its moons.
If there is more than one - show links to all of it, or at least to one which contains more celestial objects, or is better in some other ways.
I opened that part of forum: Planets and Worlds And there are so many nice mods, but some is outdated and will not work with newer SFS version and other's have different scale for solar system, like IRIS.
Please help me to find mod with exact 1:1 scaling of all objects and distances on solar system, with all gravity and orbits and trajectories realistic and 1:1 too. Which will work with newer versions of SFS.
Mod doesn't have to be perfect, it might miss something, but realistic 1:1 scaling in everything is mandatory. Is there such mod?
For example, Astria said at that link below, that most mods doesn't work with Realistic level of difficulty or have not 1:1 scale. And i want exactly one that works with Realistic level: [REQUEST] Looking for a complete solar system pack that works on steam edition realistic mode
There are so many different recreations of solar system for SFS, i have no idea which will work with newer version and Realistic level, and it is not always said there if mod is actual 1:1 scale to reality in the first place.
Please help. I want to try other planets and moons after i am finished with Jupiter and its moons.
If there is more than one - show links to all of it, or at least to one which contains more celestial objects, or is better in some other ways.
Altaïr
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Sorry, I reply late to all of this
Generally speaking, before considering ambitious missions in realistic it's a good idea to design a big and efficient launcher that will be used as a workhorse to ship all stuff to LEO. That's why I built the Obsidian, the launcher I used in my missions.
There's no general formula for that, but overall, your biggest opponent on the road to LEO is by far gravity. Drag is proportional to the atmosphere density, but that one diminishes exponentially with altitude. I don't know in realistic, but in normal mode the density is halved every 2200 meters. In practice it becomes negligible past a few kilometers of altitude. So the best strategy is to increase your horizontal velocity as soon as possible to reduce the penalty of gravity as soon as possible.
That's a gravity assist maneuver. A very valuable technique, but that is quite limited in this case: it works best with massive bodies. A gravity assist with Venus allows to go to Mercury, or a gravity assist with Jupiter allows to escape the solar system, but the Moon has a limited potential for that. You will make your mission more complex, your trajectory will be hard to predict, and you will save little ΔV in the best case. Sometimes simplicity works fine too.
Have you tried this one?
Generally speaking, before considering ambitious missions in realistic it's a good idea to design a big and efficient launcher that will be used as a workhorse to ship all stuff to LEO. That's why I built the Obsidian, the launcher I used in my missions.
There's no general formula for that, but overall, your biggest opponent on the road to LEO is by far gravity. Drag is proportional to the atmosphere density, but that one diminishes exponentially with altitude. I don't know in realistic, but in normal mode the density is halved every 2200 meters. In practice it becomes negligible past a few kilometers of altitude. So the best strategy is to increase your horizontal velocity as soon as possible to reduce the penalty of gravity as soon as possible.
That's a gravity assist maneuver. A very valuable technique, but that is quite limited in this case: it works best with massive bodies. A gravity assist with Venus allows to go to Mercury, or a gravity assist with Jupiter allows to escape the solar system, but the Moon has a limited potential for that. You will make your mission more complex, your trajectory will be hard to predict, and you will save little ΔV in the best case. Sometimes simplicity works fine too.
Have you tried this one?
when i tried to get into mars i accidentally descended into venus orbit and did an few gravity assists (3, to be more precise,), but my rocket's fuel was completely depleted after that third venus gravity assist since i had to burn through all of that fuel to get back to encountering venus, which costed alot of delta-v.
Altaïr
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That's a common problem. Gravity assist trajectories have to be planned carefully because the risk is that you end up using more fuel than what you intended to save.
The closest approach line mod helps a lot there (No I'm not doing advertising), because it lets you anticipate a cheap encounter, including on several turns:
The closest approach line mod helps a lot there (No I'm not doing advertising
), because it lets you anticipate a cheap encounter, including on several turns:
Sorry, I reply late to all of this
Generally speaking, before considering ambitious missions in realistic it's a good idea to design a big and efficient launcher that will be used as a workhorse to ship all stuff to LEO. That's why I built the Obsidian, the launcher I used in my missions.
Generally speaking, before considering ambitious missions in realistic it's a good idea to design a big and efficient launcher that will be used as a workhorse to ship all stuff to LEO. That's why I built the Obsidian, the launcher I used in my missions.
Sorry, I reply late to all of this
There's no general formula for that, but overall, your biggest opponent on the road to LEO is by far gravity. Drag is proportional to the atmosphere density, but that one diminishes exponentially with altitude. I don't know in realistic, but in normal mode the density is halved every 2200 meters. In practice it becomes negligible past a few kilometers of altitude. So the best strategy is to increase your horizontal velocity as soon as possible to reduce the penalty of gravity as soon as possible.
There's no general formula for that, but overall, your biggest opponent on the road to LEO is by far gravity. Drag is proportional to the atmosphere density, but that one diminishes exponentially with altitude. I don't know in realistic, but in normal mode the density is halved every 2200 meters. In practice it becomes negligible past a few kilometers of altitude. So the best strategy is to increase your horizontal velocity as soon as possible to reduce the penalty of gravity as soon as possible.
Sorry, I reply late to all of this
That's a gravity assist maneuver. A very valuable technique, but that is quite limited in this case: it works best with massive bodies. A gravity assist with Venus allows to go to Mercury, or a gravity assist with Jupiter allows to escape the solar system, but the Moon has a limited potential for that. You will make your mission more complex, your trajectory will be hard to predict, and you will save little ΔV in the best case. Sometimes simplicity works fine too.
That's a gravity assist maneuver. A very valuable technique, but that is quite limited in this case: it works best with massive bodies. A gravity assist with Venus allows to go to Mercury, or a gravity assist with Jupiter allows to escape the solar system, but the Moon has a limited potential for that. You will make your mission more complex, your trajectory will be hard to predict, and you will save little ΔV in the best case. Sometimes simplicity works fine too.
For example, exactly now i just used moon once again for my last Mars mission. Look at the picture below - i catapult myself exactly forward, to gain more speed than earth does, so when i fly off the Moon i already be in transfer trajectory to Mars orbit. I already did it twice and it saved A LOT of fuel.
And when i will go to Venus i will use Moon catapult backwards, to gain more slowing down, to fall closer to sun for free, because of Moon's assistance. Thus i will reach Venus with much less fuel spent.
Also i finally understood how to manipulate apoaxis and periaxis of LEO right from the takeoff, to place them at different azimuths, the most beneficial for current mission, and improved my take off to LEO trajectory, plus some more tricks. And here is the result:
I can bring to Moon even more with some minor optimizations, but that would be too hard and will take some time to perform. If there was a contest somewhere and somebody would be able to beat my record - then i would have motivation to improve it further.
Since any mission anywhere in the solar system starts by Moon's gravity-assisted slingshot anyway, i use it as a template of how much i can take to other planets.
Also i understood this - it would be so hard to plot efficient trajectory to Jupiter, that i don't want to make it twice, i might even not be able to repeat it second time at all.
Thus i found an improvement to my strategy. Why should i send Gas station to Jupiter first, if instead i can take it with my mission flight already in one fly? What i need to do is just take off with big ship-modules complex, which is made for Jupiter, but with empty fuel tanks in it, so i could bring it to LEO.
While on LEO i will make total refueling and then i will go to Jupiter all in once ship at once. And sending huge canisters of Fuel to LEO is very easy. Several canisters will be enough for big ship.
This totally eliminates any difficulties with any orbital constructions - everything can be constructed in blueprint on Earth and brought to LEO in one peace in one launch, just with empty fuel banks.
But since i am taking to Jupiter Gas station attached to main ship (and detach it on Jupiter orbit before performing all mission there) - i can bring Gas station to LEO in one separate take off too, and thus i can make even bigger ship for Jupiter, as huge as i can upload to LEO with empty fuel tanks.
And then the big journey will start - i will be learning how to plot good milti-slingshot trajectories to reach Jupiter efficiently.
Also i understood this - it would be so hard to plot efficient trajectory to Jupiter, that i don't want to make it twice, i might even not be able to repeat it second time at all.
Thus i found an improvement to my strategy. Why should i send Gas station to Jupiter first, if instead i can take it with my mission flight already in one fly? What i need to do is just take off with big ship-modules complex, which is made for Jupiter, but with empty fuel tanks in it, so i could bring it to LEO.
While on LEO i will make total refueling and then i will go to Jupiter all in once ship at once. And sending huge canisters of Fuel to LEO is very easy.
Several canisters will be enough for big ship.This totally eliminates any difficulties with any orbital constructions - everything can be constructed in blueprint on Earth and brought to LEO in one peace in one launch, just with empty fuel banks.
But since i am taking to Jupiter Gas station attached to main ship (and detach it on Jupiter orbit before performing all mission there) - i can bring Gas station to LEO in one separate take off too, and thus i can make even bigger ship for Jupiter, as huge as i can upload to LEO with empty fuel tanks.
And then the big journey will start - i will be learning how to plot good milti-slingshot trajectories to reach Jupiter efficiently.
Also i tried this one: True Scale and Distance Solar System (TSADSS) FULL RELEASE
It makes real scale 1:1 with distances, sizes, gravities, and so on, but already in Normal game difficulty. Thus i had full weight of engines and Fuel tanks, as in IRIS. But i still managed to get to the Moon a decent payload. There was interesting surprise - if i was taking to much time to get out of Earth atmosphere (rotating my rocket too early or too much after take off) - my fairing caps became overheated and ruined and fuel tanks under them exploded. So this is some kind of Uber Hard Realistic mode. Maybe i will try it later, but i am not ready for that yet.
So this engines weight burden is not that big. Fuel tanks weight makes much more of a problem, but it is still tolerable and there are many ways to overcome this problem, like orbital refueling on LEO once again. While real 1:1 distances are much more interesting challenge!
It makes real scale 1:1 with distances, sizes, gravities, and so on, but already in Normal game difficulty. Thus i had full weight of engines and Fuel tanks, as in IRIS. But i still managed to get to the Moon a decent payload. There was interesting surprise - if i was taking to much time to get out of Earth atmosphere (rotating my rocket too early or too much after take off) - my fairing caps became overheated and ruined and fuel tanks under them exploded. So this is some kind of Uber Hard Realistic mode.
Maybe i will try it later, but i am not ready for that yet.So this engines weight burden is not that big. Fuel tanks weight makes much more of a problem, but it is still tolerable and there are many ways to overcome this problem, like orbital refueling on LEO once again. While real 1:1 distances are much more interesting challenge!
Altaïr
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Hard to answer, especially that it will depend on the launcher and its TWR. A higher TWR allows you to gain horizontal speed faster without losing altitude. Practice is your best ally here
That's a very good performance. I've tried with my Obsidian loaded as much as I could, I sent a bit more than 105 tons to LEO, and once on my road to the Moon I had 50 tons remaining:
My launcher is probably lighter though, I only have 5 Titan engines running at lift-off, not 11. Still, very good performance, I would be curious to see your launcher.
Actually I never tried it in realistic, so I can't say. But I know this is a recurring demand, and not many people work on planet packs. Even myself, I stopped working on IRIS because I'm modding now, I already have 2 mods to maintain and this is very time consuming
It's a good strategy, You can assemble everything you need in LEO then send everything in a single flight indeed.
I remember I sent 2 flight to Mars for a Mars mission, but that's also because I wanted to aerobrake and the whole ship needed to be protected from reentry.
I use a direct transfer, for Mars I keep things simple. But if you can save some precious fuel that way I won't try to stop you
This is how I did my Mars mission in IRIS:
Mars mission (IRIS)
Quite an epic trip, there's no comparison with SFS in normal mode
Oh, I suggest that you update the closest approach line mod, I've just updated it
I can bring to Moon even more with some minor optimizations, but that would be too hard and will take some time to perform. If there was a contest somewhere and somebody would be able to beat my record - then i would have motivation to improve it further.
My launcher is probably lighter though, I only have 5 Titan engines running at lift-off, not 11. Still, very good performance, I would be curious to see your launcher.
Actually I never tried it in realistic, so I can't say. But I know this is a recurring demand, and not many people work on planet packs. Even myself, I stopped working on IRIS because I'm modding now, I already have 2 mods to maintain and this is very time consuming
It's a good strategy, You can assemble everything you need in LEO then send everything in a single flight indeed.
I remember I sent 2 flight to Mars for a Mars mission, but that's also because I wanted to aerobrake and the whole ship needed to be protected from reentry.
I use a direct transfer, for Mars I keep things simple. But if you can save some precious fuel that way I won't try to stop you
This is how I did my Mars mission in IRIS:
Mars mission (IRIS)
Quite an epic trip, there's no comparison with SFS in normal mode
Oh, I suggest that you update the closest approach line mod, I've just updated it
Here it is:
I can change size of each stage little higher or little lower, depending on vertical size and weight of payload at the top. To make fuel distribution between stages more optimal for current payload.
While width of central shaft is big enough for any kind of payload, thus i generally try to make it bloated in width in order save vertical space - thus i can bring more to orbit, since more vertical space = more powerful stages below.
The goal is, that third stage from the picture must be depleted after it brought to orbit entire payload. From then orbital payload is on its own. If third stage is not depleted, then we can make more heavier payload or make it a little bigger vertically. If thirds stage is finished and payload still didn't grab LEO - then we need to add up some fuel to 2nd or/and 3rd stages, maybe even to 1st too. If vertical size of payload permits this adding up of course. And if doesn't permit - then your payload is way too heavy and needs to be reduced.
When rocket is too heavy, like more than 3600 total mass, i often just make fuel tanks in top payload partially empty and if something will left in third stage after reaching LEO - i am transfering fuel from third section to payload fuel tanks and detaching third stage anyway.
This Launcher can bring more than 160 tons of payload to orbit (when 3rd stage's weight doesn't counts). I didn't tried what would be the maximum possible payload to orbit, since i still don't have any good take off strategy.
I can change size of each stage little higher or little lower, depending on vertical size and weight of payload at the top. To make fuel distribution between stages more optimal for current payload.
While width of central shaft is big enough for any kind of payload, thus i generally try to make it bloated in width in order save vertical space - thus i can bring more to orbit, since more vertical space = more powerful stages below.
The goal is, that third stage from the picture must be depleted after it brought to orbit entire payload. From then orbital payload is on its own. If third stage is not depleted, then we can make more heavier payload or make it a little bigger vertically. If thirds stage is finished and payload still didn't grab LEO - then we need to add up some fuel to 2nd or/and 3rd stages, maybe even to 1st too. If vertical size of payload permits this adding up of course. And if doesn't permit - then your payload is way too heavy and needs to be reduced.
When rocket is too heavy, like more than 3600 total mass, i often just make fuel tanks in top payload partially empty and if something will left in third stage after reaching LEO - i am transfering fuel from third section to payload fuel tanks and detaching third stage anyway.
This Launcher can bring more than 160 tons of payload to orbit (when 3rd stage's weight doesn't counts). I didn't tried what would be the maximum possible payload to orbit, since i still don't have any good take off strategy.
For example for my next mission i want to land on Venus and come home.
Is it possible to use parachutes on Venus? Because i want to launch something like this:
Top picture is what will be launched, then in the middle - i will open engine in space to use it, then at the bottom - i will detach emptied fuel section and close engine with shields once again before entering Venus atmosphere.
Is it good plan?
I want to drop it to Venus atmosphere directly, without any slowing down before Venus, and then parachute to the ground.
Will atmospheric slowing down will be enough to transfer to Venus orbit or i will just fly by and will leave Venus entirely? Because in last case i need to take more fuel for slowing down before Venus atmosphere.
What would be best altitude to dive into atmosphere of Venus at full speed from outside space? For guaranteed transfer to Venus orbit.
Is 4 parachutes enough for 80 tons complex?
Dropping to the ground doesn't have to be very slow - i can manage to slow down before ground with that engine as well. But it would be better if parachutes helped to reduce speed first.
What do you think?
Is it possible to use parachutes on Venus? Because i want to launch something like this:
Top picture is what will be launched, then in the middle - i will open engine in space to use it, then at the bottom - i will detach emptied fuel section and close engine with shields once again before entering Venus atmosphere.
Is it good plan?
I want to drop it to Venus atmosphere directly, without any slowing down before Venus, and then parachute to the ground.
Will atmospheric slowing down will be enough to transfer to Venus orbit or i will just fly by and will leave Venus entirely? Because in last case i need to take more fuel for slowing down before Venus atmosphere.
What would be best altitude to dive into atmosphere of Venus at full speed from outside space? For guaranteed transfer to Venus orbit.
Is 4 parachutes enough for 80 tons complex?
Dropping to the ground doesn't have to be very slow - i can manage to slow down before ground with that engine as well. But it would be better if parachutes helped to reduce speed first.
What do you think?
I invented an improved complex for any landing mission. It is completely versatile - i can choose any different strategy with the same complex. It can be used as aerobreaker with immediate landing, or with aerobreaker and then placing orbital fuel canister before landing later. Parachutes and heat shields can be removed, central tank (just below capsule) can be made bigger or smaller if needed.
And ion engines helps outside Earth SOI a lot. For example, that picture i showed yesterday, how little i spent from moon slingshot to entering Mars - that is exactly because i burned after moon periapsis only ions with almost the same efficiency, but totally difference fuel consumption. Ions save a lot of fuel for free on most deep space manuevers.
And one huge heavy engine actually saves more fuel by better consumption efficiency, than his weight difference, thus it is more optimal than any smaller engine in many missions. But for other cases it can be replaced with smaller one. But for heavy planets small engine is not strong enough.
It is also easy to switch fuel tanks between upper canister and lower side banks with landing gear, depending of what would be better for current mission.
Plus i can burn all upper canister section for something very long, like route to Saturn, and detach this canister completely somewhere en route, but still keep ions!
Maybe with your experience, you can suggest some more improvements, which i overlooked.
And ion engines helps outside Earth SOI a lot. For example, that picture i showed yesterday, how little i spent from moon slingshot to entering Mars - that is exactly because i burned after moon periapsis only ions with almost the same efficiency, but totally difference fuel consumption. Ions save a lot of fuel for free on most deep space manuevers.
And one huge heavy engine actually saves more fuel by better consumption efficiency, than his weight difference, thus it is more optimal than any smaller engine in many missions. But for other cases it can be replaced with smaller one. But for heavy planets small engine is not strong enough.
It is also easy to switch fuel tanks between upper canister and lower side banks with landing gear, depending of what would be better for current mission.
Plus i can burn all upper canister section for something very long, like route to Saturn, and detach this canister completely somewhere en route, but still keep ions!
Maybe with your experience, you can suggest some more improvements, which i overlooked.
By direct proportions only it requires to burn 56 tons of fuel at Realistic to cover up for difference between Frontier and Valiant weights. And at not Realistic difficulties it will require even 112 tons already.
But in reality, burning with higher TWR will make much more efficient beating of the gravity, since we will use much more gravity assistance on orbits and even more important - we will land and take off much faster, not wasting lots of time fighting gravity, which will waster a lot of fuel for nothing with smaller engines.
Thus Frontier even on small ships overcompensates very fast for its extra weight and makes it more optimal.
And cases where Kolibri can be better than Valiant are even more rare. I suspect it only happens to unmanned flights with probe, which is lighter, and can return on its own with very little fuel bank, where weight will compensate for Kalibris extra fuel consumption. But even in this case something like this (on picture below) will be even more beneficial - such probe can cover a lot of space distances by making corrections in trajectories to collect nice slinghots in big quantities, since ion plus super light weight will allow a lot of good burnings.
But in reality, burning with higher TWR will make much more efficient beating of the gravity, since we will use much more gravity assistance on orbits and even more important - we will land and take off much faster, not wasting lots of time fighting gravity, which will waster a lot of fuel for nothing with smaller engines.
Thus Frontier even on small ships overcompensates very fast for its extra weight and makes it more optimal.
And cases where Kolibri can be better than Valiant are even more rare. I suspect it only happens to unmanned flights with probe, which is lighter, and can return on its own with very little fuel bank, where weight will compensate for Kalibris extra fuel consumption. But even in this case something like this (on picture below) will be even more beneficial - such probe can cover a lot of space distances by making corrections in trajectories to collect nice slinghots in big quantities, since ion plus super light weight will allow a lot of good burnings.
I finally returned home alive after all Mars missions. There was a lot of fun. For example, i didn't anticipate that speed to get away from Mars needs to be almost 5 kilometers per second. I didn't expect that, i didn't plan for that, i didn't take fuel for that! I had to improvise and fix things at once with all i have left.
Also that Phobos is so a tricky fox, i couldn't land on it - it dragged me over the ground like a leaf dragged by the wind and never falls on the ground at all. I had to take off and find the deepest pit in it, go there and push myself to that pit to get acknowledgment that i indeed landed.
And many other very fun things and lol failures.
And it makes a very interesting challenge - to perform all Mars missions at once with single flight from Earth without any help from other rockets or orbital stations, without connecting any parts from another flights, and using no other gas stations, which were put in Mars orbit in advance - you can use only equipment, which you take with this single take-off flight from Earth for this mission, would it be a gas station or anything else. And be able to come back home alive. At Realistic level.
It was very interesting to find a way to perform this. I had one gas station in Mars orbit in advance, but i didn't used it, what i brought with single flight from Earht was enough and even a little extra fuel did left before Earth.
I had to improvise and fix things at once with all i have left.Also that Phobos is so a tricky fox, i couldn't land on it - it dragged me over the ground like a leaf dragged by the wind and never falls on the ground at all. I had to take off and find the deepest pit in it, go there and push myself to that pit to get acknowledgment that i indeed landed.
And many other very fun things and lol failures.
And it makes a very interesting challenge - to perform all Mars missions at once with single flight from Earth without any help from other rockets or orbital stations, without connecting any parts from another flights, and using no other gas stations, which were put in Mars orbit in advance - you can use only equipment, which you take with this single take-off flight from Earth for this mission, would it be a gas station or anything else. And be able to come back home alive. At Realistic level.
It was very interesting to find a way to perform this. I had one gas station in Mars orbit in advance, but i didn't used it, what i brought with single flight from Earht was enough and even a little extra fuel did left before Earth.
Altaïr
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Oh, I understand better. I was a bit surprised that you managed to send 120 tons to the Moon, I thought it was with a single launch. I assume you refueled your ship in orbit then. Unless you used ion engines?
It's possible of course, it even works very well, Venus atmosphere is really thick.
The problem is rather to come back from Venus. Gravity and orbital speed are nearly the same as for Earth (they are a little lower), and because of the thick atmosphere you'll experience a lot of drag. That lander is way too small to be able to come back. Also you should make it as slick as possible because drag really matters on Venus. Otherwise the reentry system with the movable heat shields is well thought.
I would advise to simulate some reentries on Earth first, that way you will be able to test your system, see if it's stable and everything.
Good old ion engines
They are the ultimate ΔV killer yes. To the point they are nearly considered cheating in base game. In realistic it's different, but their thrust make them very powerful compared to what they are in real life. A real ion engine rather provides a few newtons of thrust (and at the cost of high electric power). The ion engine ingame provides... 14700 newtons
This is called Asparagus staging. This is very efficient indeed, as it allows you to regularly drop some dead weight.
You're right in the case in which you fight gravity (suborbital flight), but if you navigate in space the TWR is less important. You need a minimum so that your maneuvers don't take forever, but more TWR means more engines, which means more mass, which means less ΔV. On the contrary I tend to fly with a low TWR in space, even if it requires more patience.
It mostly depends on the mass of your ship. With its highest Isp, the Frontier is the best engine, but a single one weighs 6 tons, it's heavy! For small ships a Valiant will be better. It has a little less Isp, but it saves 4 tons on the ship. For a ship that weighs 40 tons that makes you save 10% of the weight (not dead mass, full weight)!
For the Kolibri its advantage is that it's very light. I estimate that it will be better than the Valiant for ships under 20 tons. Below this, the mass saved overcompensates the lower Isp.
That must have been an epic mission!
Time to use the REALLY heavy ship!
It's possible of course, it even works very well, Venus atmosphere is really thick.
The problem is rather to come back from Venus. Gravity and orbital speed are nearly the same as for Earth (they are a little lower), and because of the thick atmosphere you'll experience a lot of drag. That lander is way too small to be able to come back. Also you should make it as slick as possible because drag really matters on Venus. Otherwise the reentry system with the movable heat shields is well thought.
I would advise to simulate some reentries on Earth first, that way you will be able to test your system, see if it's stable and everything.
Good old ion engines
They are the ultimate ΔV killer yes. To the point they are nearly considered cheating in base game. In realistic it's different, but their thrust make them very powerful compared to what they are in real life. A real ion engine rather provides a few newtons of thrust (and at the cost of high electric power). The ion engine ingame provides... 14700 newtons
This is called Asparagus staging. This is very efficient indeed, as it allows you to regularly drop some dead weight.
You're right in the case in which you fight gravity (suborbital flight), but if you navigate in space the TWR is less important. You need a minimum so that your maneuvers don't take forever, but more TWR means more engines, which means more mass, which means less ΔV. On the contrary I tend to fly with a low TWR in space, even if it requires more patience.
It mostly depends on the mass of your ship. With its highest Isp, the Frontier is the best engine, but a single one weighs 6 tons, it's heavy! For small ships a Valiant will be better. It has a little less Isp, but it saves 4 tons on the ship. For a ship that weighs 40 tons that makes you save 10% of the weight (not dead mass, full weight)!
For the Kolibri its advantage is that it's very light. I estimate that it will be better than the Valiant for ships under 20 tons. Below this, the mass saved overcompensates the lower Isp.
That must have been an epic mission!
Time to use the REALLY heavy ship!
No refueling. 160 tons from take off to LEO by huge launcher, in single launch, and 122 tons of those 160 reached Moon's SOI and was pulled by Moon's gravity to a nice slingshot in best direction for Mars bundle missions. After Moon's periapsis i burned only ions, because there is no hurry, that allowed me to bring to Mars's SOI the whole 114.5 tons from those 122, and heaving so much delivered to Mars allows to perform all Mars missions in one single launch at Realistic level.
I read your topic with your travel to Mars in IRIS and achieving all missions in two flights, with gas station first. It was very interesting and entertaining! But at Realistic level it has totally new plain of interest - a challenge, a sport interest. For example, you need around 4.9 km per second to escape Mars' Soi at Realistic. And you don't have any gas stations from previous launches.
Thus it requires totally different strategy and a lot of creative solutions to make it all happen. Inventing all this was very interesting for me. Even correct order of actions inside Mars SOI makes a big difference, not only nice Mars complex itself. For example, try your aerobreaking strategy to save a lot of fuel and see what the result will be - you are up to a big surprise.
I read your topic with your travel to Mars in IRIS and achieving all missions in two flights, with gas station first. It was very interesting and entertaining! But at Realistic level it has totally new plain of interest - a challenge, a sport interest.
For example, you need around 4.9 km per second to escape Mars' Soi at Realistic. And you don't have any gas stations from previous launches. Thus it requires totally different strategy and a lot of creative solutions to make it all happen. Inventing all this was very interesting for me. Even correct order of actions inside Mars SOI makes a big difference, not only nice Mars complex itself. For example, try your aerobreaking strategy to save a lot of fuel and see what the result will be - you are up to a big surprise.
But we need a fair game! No cheating!
I never used even parts clipping (to gain a lot of fuel for free in the same space), even though bagged logic of "part adaptation" function allows to stack a lot of clippings and editor accepts them. And parts editor mod was fun to explore, but i never used it too.Now i want to perform Venus mission the same fair way and in one flight only. In must be possible if i save fuel with ions performing slingshot from Moon.
It would be very interesting to try to find a way to make it in one flight for Jupiter too!