Razor Resurrect
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Horus Lupercal
Primarch - Warmaster
Professor
Swingin' on a Star
Deja Vu
Biker Mice from Mars
ET phone home
Floater
Copycat
Registered
Horus Lupercal
Primarch - Warmaster
Professor
Swingin' on a Star
Deja Vu
Biker Mice from Mars
ET phone home
Floater
Copycat
Registered
Horus Lupercal
Primarch - Warmaster
Professor
Swingin' on a Star
Deja Vu
Biker Mice from Mars
ET phone home
Floater
Copycat
Registered
Horus Lupercal
Primarch - Warmaster
Professor
Swingin' on a Star
Deja Vu
Biker Mice from Mars
ET phone home
Floater
Copycat
Registered
Well...
It's fucking down. After the most ridiculous suicide burn I've ever done, it's down.
And it seems I've made another fuck up now I'm here.
Blazer, you were absolutely, 100% correct. 1 ion engine is not enough to push the sorry carcass of the CM off the ground. I had (for some reason) done the calculations for 2 ions, which is enough, but can't actually power 2 of them.
So imagine my surprise when I disconnect, press go and absolutely nothing happens.
Now, a conundrum.
As now I'm on Mercury. I've enough power to lift with the grasshopper engine, but not enough fuel to do it with.
I'm gonna give the suicide burn another whirl, see if I can get down with a full 5t tank.
If not, then another re-design is on the cards for the MEM.
It's fucking down. After the most ridiculous suicide burn I've ever done, it's down.
And it seems I've made another fuck up now I'm here.
Blazer, you were absolutely, 100% correct. 1 ion engine is not enough to push the sorry carcass of the CM off the ground. I had (for some reason) done the calculations for 2 ions, which is enough, but can't actually power 2 of them.
So imagine my surprise when I disconnect, press go and absolutely nothing happens.
Now, a conundrum.
As now I'm on Mercury. I've enough power to lift with the grasshopper engine, but not enough fuel to do it with.
I'm gonna give the suicide burn another whirl, see if I can get down with a full 5t tank.
If not, then another re-design is on the cards for the MEM.
Same happened to me. On my first attempt I used EXACTLY that return Module (except the White separator), and When I tried to launch, Well... You already know what happened.
Also, If you look at my attempt I used the Grasshopper for a small push, then continued with the Ion. The problem is that you are arriving with the Grasshopper's tank empty, so maybe try some optimization?
Also, If you look at my attempt I used the Grasshopper for a small push, then continued with the Ion. The problem is that you are arriving with the Grasshopper's tank empty, so maybe try some optimization?
Horus Lupercal
Primarch - Warmaster
Professor
Swingin' on a Star
Deja Vu
Biker Mice from Mars
ET phone home
Floater
Copycat
Registered
Horus Lupercal show me yours and I'll show you mine 
And a big congratulations to those who have completed the challenge. You've all done quite well, I appreciate the admirable effort.
A note on interpretations of the challenge, I consider all the above attempts successful, my intent was to specifically remove use of larger engines. 1.4 is a different version with new obstacles to overcome in mechanics alone and I really wanted to know how creative people could get with the new parts or adaptions therein of old ones minus large thrusters which just negate the difficulty all together.
If you want to consider the use of 1.35 specific parts as EXTREME mode and the bragging rights that would come with feel free, note the small 3 by 4.5ish fairing didn't exist in that version and exceeds the width limit.
And a big congratulations to those who have completed the challenge. You've all done quite well, I appreciate the admirable effort.
A note on interpretations of the challenge, I consider all the above attempts successful, my intent was to specifically remove use of larger engines. 1.4 is a different version with new obstacles to overcome in mechanics alone and I really wanted to know how creative people could get with the new parts or adaptions therein of old ones minus large thrusters which just negate the difficulty all together.
If you want to consider the use of 1.35 specific parts as EXTREME mode and the bragging rights that would come with feel free, note the small 3 by 4.5ish fairing didn't exist in that version and exceeds the width limit.
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Haven't played in a couple months, looking at my last qksave i'm sitting in the tightest orbit I could make for the slowest approach. Figure I'm gonna have to start again from leo in order to make each maneuver and slingshot far more efficient. Big question is though, I used a moon assist to venus after which my intial drop to mercury is at a lower velocity than without using the moon. Am I using the moon correctly or is it just happenstance?
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Altaïr
Space Stig, Master of gravity
Staff member
Head Moderator
Team Kolibri
Modder
TEAM HAWK
Atlas
Deja Vu
Under Pressure
Forum Legend
Using the Moon to slingshot towards Venus sounds like a good idea, but it's not very efficient. When I was playing 1.35, I used to chain 2 gravity assists with the Moon to propell myself to Venus, but the gain was quite small (something like 50 m/s). With 1.4 the Sun is heavier, and it is now more demanding to go to Venus, so this maneuver is not viable anymore. It's difficult not to lose delta-V doing this now, so I don't recommend it anymore. The best way is still to go directly from Earth to Venus.
By the way, I feel like you burn while in Sun orbit to get a slower approach with Mercury, is that correct? If that's the case I don't recommend it. Your approach will be slower, but you'll spend more fuel for this than if you inserted directly into Mercury orbit. This is the Oberth effect: maneuvering close to a body will be more efficient. If you want to save fuel there, you can try to slingshot with Mercury. I've described that maneuver in my gravity assist thread if you are interested.
By the way, I feel like you burn while in Sun orbit to get a slower approach with Mercury, is that correct? If that's the case I don't recommend it. Your approach will be slower, but you'll spend more fuel for this than if you inserted directly into Mercury orbit. This is the Oberth effect: maneuvering close to a body will be more efficient. If you want to save fuel there, you can try to slingshot with Mercury. I've described that maneuver in my gravity assist thread if you are interested.
Yes I have been reviewing your materials as I've been progressing through the mission. I ended up in that orbit by making adjustments during multiple slingshots at mercury. So initially my velocity at closest pass was around 1200 and with that orbit it's down to 600... however yes the fuel preserved with multiple burns isn't enough left to return. My confusion is that just by passing close to mercury the orbit doesn't change at all, does this just mean that I need to wait until an encounter is eventually going to be slower than before? Sorry if my explanation is unclear, I'll re read your maneuvers and try to apply them again correctly. Thanks.
Altaïr
Space Stig, Master of gravity
Staff member
Head Moderator
Team Kolibri
Modder
TEAM HAWK
Atlas
Deja Vu
Under Pressure
Forum Legend
If your orbit didn't change, It can be that you didn't encounter Mercury at a favorable angle. I realize that I didn't explain this very well, but when crossing Mercury's trajectory, you can do it in 2 different ways. Here is an example:
The difference doesn't look great, but it exists: on the first picture, I cross Mercury on the descending node: the ship still hasn't reached the periapsis and is losing altitude on the encounter. On the second pic, on the contrary I cross Mercury on the ascending node. You can notice that the periapsis is visible this time.
The situation you want is the second one. The slingshot will be far less efficient in the first situation. That's maybe what happened... If you get an encounter and you see the encounter happens before you reach the periapsis, then burn prograde to delay the encounter. Note that it only applies if you intend to perform a slingshot. If you're going for direct insertion it doesn't matter.
If you want another example, I used this procedure recently in another thread:
https://jmnet.one/sfs/forum/index.php?threads/engines-are-expensive-challenge.4414/#post-87534
(Maybe the procedure isn't exactly the same though, as I recalculated it to optimize it at some point).
The difference doesn't look great, but it exists: on the first picture, I cross Mercury on the descending node: the ship still hasn't reached the periapsis and is losing altitude on the encounter. On the second pic, on the contrary I cross Mercury on the ascending node. You can notice that the periapsis is visible this time.
The situation you want is the second one. The slingshot will be far less efficient in the first situation. That's maybe what happened... If you get an encounter and you see the encounter happens before you reach the periapsis, then burn prograde to delay the encounter. Note that it only applies if you intend to perform a slingshot. If you're going for direct insertion it doesn't matter.
If you want another example, I used this procedure recently in another thread:
https://jmnet.one/sfs/forum/index.php?threads/engines-are-expensive-challenge.4414/#post-87534
(Maybe the procedure isn't exactly the same though, as I recalculated it to optimize it at some point).