SFS future update. Share your discoveries

#26
Okay. So to put this into context, we're talking about a post from someone who had been a member for one day and was posting for the second time.

The first response s/he gets (from a forum elder) tells her/him not to use the engine he has chosen, but then kindly goes on to give her/him permission to consider another.

The next response is not a comment on her/his build.

The third response (yours) accuses her/him of impatience, cheating and incompetence because s/he used oversized engines and lots of RCS.

This is not the way to encourage new members!

And you are wrong about this being the only explanation. S/he might simply like the aesthetics. S/he might still be at the stage where docking feels like quite an accomplishment. And actually, having excess thrust and maneuverability is perfect for practicing docking, where being able to make rapid extreme changes in orbital velocity can be an advantage. It also allows you to do the astrogational equivalent of a handbrake turn into a tight parking space, which is fun!

Please don't get me wrong, I have tons of respect for the members like yourself, who have invested many hours in developing your skills within the game, and passing them on to others. I do think however that you sometimes lose sight of the fact that not everyone wants advice or criticism, and that people play this game for different reasons. Some people want to calculate delta v to the decimal point, some people want to make pretty ships, and some people want to zoom around space having fun adventures. I believe there should be room and encouragement for everyone in a community such as this.
 

Bananas

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#27
Okay. So to put this into context, we're talking about a post from someone who had been a member for one day and was posting for the second time.

The first response s/he gets (from a forum elder) tells her/him not to use the engine he has chosen, but then kindly goes on to give her/him permission to consider another.

The next response is not a comment on her/his build.

The third response (yours) accuses her/him of impatience, cheating and incompetence because s/he used oversized engines and lots of RCS.

This is not the way to encourage new members!

And you are wrong about this being the only explanation. S/he might simply like the aesthetics. S/he might still be at the stage where docking feels like quite an accomplishment. And actually, having excess thrust and maneuverability is perfect for practicing docking, where being able to make rapid extreme changes in orbital velocity can be an advantage. It also allows you to do the astrogational equivalent of a handbrake turn into a tight parking space, which is fun!

Please don't get me wrong, I have tons of respect for the members like yourself, who have invested many hours in developing your skills within the game, and passing them on to others. I do think however that you sometimes lose sight of the fact that not everyone wants advice or criticism, and that people play this game for different reasons. Some people want to calculate delta v to the decimal point, some people want to make pretty ships, and some people want to zoom around space having fun adventures. I believe there should be room and encouragement for everyone in a community such as this.
I disagree. This forum is meant for everyone to discuss and build on other people's creations, and that includes criticism. We hold ourselves to a higher standard here, so if you want to post your creation, expect criticism. And it's not like we bash on everyone, we often give praise when it's actually up to standard and quality. Criticism helps you improve your creation, it helps you more than praise. If you're going to post something here, you should expect that our members will comment on it, whether it is positive or negative. If s/he is at a maturity level of over 13 years of age, which s/he is required to be, s/he should be able to take the criticism and improve his/her creation.
 
T

TtTOtW

Guest
#28
Okay. So to put this into context, we're talking about a post from someone who had been a member for one day and was posting for the second time.

The first response s/he gets (from a forum elder) tells her/him not to use the engine he has chosen, but then kindly goes on to give her/him permission to consider another.

The next response is not a comment on her/his build.

The third response (yours) accuses her/him of impatience, cheating and incompetence because s/he used oversized engines and lots of RCS.

This is not the way to encourage new members!

And you are wrong about this being the only explanation. S/he might simply like the aesthetics. S/he might still be at the stage where docking feels like quite an accomplishment. And actually, having excess thrust and maneuverability is perfect for practicing docking, where being able to make rapid extreme changes in orbital velocity can be an advantage. It also allows you to do the astrogational equivalent of a handbrake turn into a tight parking space, which is fun!

Please don't get me wrong, I have tons of respect for the members like yourself, who have invested many hours in developing your skills within the game, and passing them on to others. I do think however that you sometimes lose sight of the fact that not everyone wants advice or criticism, and that people play this game for different reasons. Some people want to calculate delta v to the decimal point, some people want to make pretty ships, and some people want to zoom around space having fun adventures. I believe there should be room and encouragement for everyone in a community such as this.
Agreed, but then I would not be helping the person at all. Because what I said holds true. Excess thrust points directly to ignorance and lack of confidence and patience. You think I never went through that phase? It is concise constructive criticism and yes spamming Titans and RCS is obviously a sign someone needs guidance.
 

Earl

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#29
I think that some of those responses were a bit rude towards the op. I believe we should be able to freely criticize builds and projects, since that is a great way to improve. However, I think insulting people because of their builds is not. That can definitely discourage newer players. Anyway, that's what I think.
 
T

TtTOtW

Guest
#30
I think that some of those responses were a bit rude towards the op. I believe we should be able to freely criticize builds and projects, since that is a great way to improve. However, I think insulting people because of their builds is not. That can definitely discourage newer players. Anyway, that's what I think.
I can only speak for myself, but as for the others, it does appear harsh at times. Then again, people really post some stupid things at times. Not pointing to someone building an odd rocket. But rather those who cannot see the difference between a masterpiece and their crap. Ok so my words are hard. But here is how I define a good builder: one who learns from his faults and accept guidance from those who are obviously qualified to correct him. He will eventually be their equal in build skill, and is already their equal in mindset. Also, I often DM the person soon after, to offer my personal guidance in a less compressed manner.
 

Earl

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#31
I can only speak for myself, but as for the others, it does appear harsh at times. Then again, people really post some stupid things at times. Not pointing to someone building an odd rocket. But rather those who cannot see the difference between a masterpiece and their crap. Ok so my words are hard. But here is how I define a good builder: one who learns from his faults and accept guidance from those who are obviously qualified to correct him. He will eventually be their equal in build skill, and is already their equal in mindset. Also, I often DM the person soon after, to offer my personal guidance in a less compressed manner.
I definitely agree with this. What I am saying is it would be a more welcoming environment if we didn't insult the person or their builds, but simply tell them how to improve it. I think we should definitely help people improve, but we shouldn't just insult them.
 
T

TtTOtW

Guest
#32
I definitely agree with this. What I am saying is it would be a more welcoming environment if we didn't insult the person or their builds, but simply tell them how to improve it. I think we should definitely help people improve, but we shouldn't just insult them.
That we agree on. After all, it is our objective to see them get better at SFS.
 

Altaïr

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#33
Okay. So to put this into context, we're talking about a post from someone who had been a member for one day and was posting for the second time.

The first response s/he gets (from a forum elder) tells her/him not to use the engine he has chosen, but then kindly goes on to give her/him permission to consider another.
Said response was mine, and all I can say is that I'm sorry to hear that it could be considered harsh :confused:

I advised him to use another type of engine, but there are good reasons behind this. I didn't especially elaborate because he was a beginner and probably didn't come to be taught about the Tsiolkovski equation, but this would make his life easier. My intention was only to give him a hint.

Maybe it was not worded appropriately, but be sure that I respect beginners, I don't forget that I've also been a beginner too. If he wants to use Titan engine on his space station, well I'm fine with that, he does it as he likes.

However, generally speaking I understand your point. It's true that this community is very elitist, and I understand this can discourage newcomers.
 

Blazer Ayanami

Space Shuttle enthusiast // Retired Admin
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#34
Yeah, maybe we're Actually discouraging new members. After all, being new on a place where you just wanna post your beginer, but built with effort builds, and then someone tells you all of that can cause that person to leave the community in shame.
 
T

TtTOtW

Guest
#35
Yeah, maybe we're Actually discouraging new members. After all, being new on a place where you just wanna post your beginer, but built with effort builds, and then someone tells you all of that can cause that person to leave the community in shame.
We've become a bit demanding, true, but the mods have orders to from here on keep the balance more firmly.
 
#36
I'm really glad to see that my comments have been taken as they were intended, as constructive criticism with the aim of helping this community to develop and grow.

We're on the brink of a new update and I expect this to bring a wave of new players, it's heartening to know that they will be welcomed with patience, respect and encouragement.
 

JSP

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#37
I'm really glad to see that my comments have been taken as they were intended, as constructive criticism with the aim of helping this community to develop and grow.

We're on the brink of a new update and I expect this to bring a wave of new players, it's heartening to know that they will be welcomed with patience, respect and encouragement.
MOAR Thread Breathing
Am joking new players will be brilliant they might even join the forum
 
#38
i joined the forum cant wait for the PC release of the new version. I finally found this web site. thank god the controls on the mobile are horrible
 

Altaïr

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#39
i joined the forum cant wait for the PC release of the new version. I finally found this web site. thank god the controls on the mobile are horrible
Welcome to the forum Ultimas :)

The PC version is planned but later, for now we can only expect the new version on Android. Then on Ios in the next 2 days (I think...)
 

Altaïr

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#45
Little question. Maybe I have a Bug. Why Saturn is not présent ?
It's normal Tony, Saturn is not ingame :)
But you can try some of the planet packs on the forum. Just be careful to choose a planet pack updated for 1.5 (I don't know if there are much though...), because all orbit radius have been increased by a factor 2.5.
Otherwise you can update the planet file yourself of course.
 

Tony

Registered
#48
Currently the only problem that is missing and annoying. This is the cancel button (back) in the editor. I am forced to all recommended after a handling error.
 

JSP

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#49
There is only 2 things I hate about SFS 1.5 it's that Stef readded ion engines when I think we should of waited and 2 is the titan engine they are about 1 square bigger and my Saturn V now needs to be re designed since it won't let me stage on the S-IVB