Titan submission

Catalyst_Kh

TEAM HAWK
Atlas
Fly me to the Moon
Under Pressure
Registered
#1
Mission to the Moon completed. Had to cut in two parts, because i caught that nasty bug again and had to restart the game to clean broken data from memory. But there are LOLs in part two though - i forgot to switch off magnetic power for my connector and my cappy stuck there at first time :D, then tumbled nicely in the atmosphere another time.


 
S

Sportgus

Guest
#2
Wow you did this in realistic mode, this is impressive. Wonder what you will cook up for Team Frontier and Hawk ;)
 

Catalyst_Kh

TEAM HAWK
Atlas
Fly me to the Moon
Under Pressure
Registered
#6
Wow you did this in realistic mode, this is impressive. Wonder what you will cook up for Team Frontier and Hawk ;)
I plan to perform other missions only at Realistic if it is allowed - because this is real fun! True space velocities, true space distances, true space sizes, may things are like in real world.

For example, i plan to make next Mars Frontier mission at Realistic and get back to Earth. With one launcher only and without any ion drives.

They asked to perform Probe mission and Mercury mission at easy game difficulty. Easy (Normal) level in game is utmost boring, but rules are the rules. Though sending Probe away from Sun mission was interesting, they made it very nice, it was not obvious and took some time to figure out, which optimizations i do lack to beat the threshold.

When i will finish several more Realistic challenges i plan to make big post with the most interesting challenges at Realistic level and "Intensified Realistic" level (Realistic without any bonuses). Some challenges are easy, some average, some are true hardcore, but all are very fun and doable in different ways - there is a lot of room for creativity.

With good optimization of your strategy, everything can be done at Realistic, and many of those can be done even without ion drives, many even from one single launch from Earth without any docking, orbital construction, refueling, towing, or other help from other rockets.

Most kindergarten strategies, that work fine at default Easy level in game (which is by some unknown reason called Normal), will fail catastrophically at Realistic level. You need to invent new strategies, better strategies, which will fit real space size and velocities. Or you can find those strategies in other topics if you did stuck with something in particular.

Sadly, at "Intensified Realistic" there is no way anything can be done reasonably without ion drives.

There is x1.5 engines efficiency bonus for generic in game Realistic level. And also less dense atmosphere bonus too. I suspect the developer of the game did it because he wanted to balance too small blueprint area and didn't want to make this area bigger because some reason, maybe he thought that for Easy difficulty this size is already way too much.

Or maybe engines efficiency at Realistic level is the real one and Developer did the opposite - he nerfed (lowered) engines effisiency for Easy level to make it at least little less easy.

I hope one day Developer will reconsider this and either cease engines efficiency bonus, or will make this bonus smaller, but will give some other benefits for compensation, to replace this bonus, for example, he may give a bigger blueprint area for Realistic level only. Good realistic atmosphere also is very nice and generic Realistic level lacks it a lot.

That efficiency bonus is a necessity for the time been. Because without this bonus the amount of payload, which can be delivered to Earth orbit from the ground is just way too small - this is unplayable.

At generic Realistic with good design you can deliver to orbit only around 5% of your rocket's initial size, that is if payload is big, and 6%+ if payload is smaller. That is more than 1/20 of the starting weight on the ground.

While at "Intensified realistic" without any bonuses at all, and with full dense atmosphere, i barely can deliver 1/80 of my initial rocket size to orbit as payload.

There is such nice Custom World for example:

True Scale and Distance Solar System (TSADSS) FULL RELEASE

There is full Realistic Complete Solar system, which is placed as a substitute for Normal level. Thus you have no engine efficiency bonuses and no atmosphere bonuses. And still, even there i was able to fly to the moon and get back to Earth - and all that from one single launcher from Earth. It was the hardest challenge for me so fast. Even harder, than my last Jupiter challenge (link 1, link 2).

At that "Intensified Realistic" it took me a lot to figure out, how to get Moon landing done (with landing on Earth alive) with two launchers (my first attempt demanded the whole three launchers). And how to do it in one launch only - that was epic quest, i enjoyed each hour of it. For example, i recently saw on the forum some old topic with challenge for Intensified Realistic, where they offered to at least get to the orbit of the Earth with a bare probe. :) So unusual was such Intensified Realistic level, when somebody made it first time long ago. :)

I would love to see some compromise mod, which keeps engines efficiency bonus for generic Realistic as it is - x1.5, but removes all other bonuses, or at least removes thinner atmosphere of generic Realistic and replaces it with full density atmosphere, like in TSADSS.

The way Atmosphere works in TSADSS is adorable. It is the same dense atmosphere as at default Easy level in game, but it is much bigger/larger/higher, it is stretched to full real size. Density goes to higher altitudes and any high velocity burns any heat shields at once.

First time i though "bruuuh, i can easily beat that problem!", and made this nice contraption below. How naive i was! :D

1674965527241.png


I had four heat shields pressed on each other. So one burns out - next one starts from 0°C again. And so four times.

And they all burned like a paper one by one - almost in seconds. :D If i had 20 instead of 4 - it would not change anything. If super high velocity meets real atmosphere - temperatures will be enormous, much more than 6k° C.
 

Pink

(Mooncrasher)
Staff member
Team Valiant
Discord Staff
Voyager Quest
Man on the Moon
Forum Legend
#7
Very good mission overall, since it took place in a harder mode. I know how ridiculously hard and tedious that can get with SFS parts, I'm in hiatus from doing something similar myself due to real life busy-ness.

However we can't accept it due to damage caused to attached parts at multiple places.... You are expected to detach unneeded stages, not burn them off, and to not break things when you land. Sorry to have to say that. :(
 
S

Sportgus

Guest
#8
Aw that's unfortunate, definitely worthy of the badge just need to be safer. You did it once, you can do it again right?
 

Catalyst_Kh

TEAM HAWK
Atlas
Fly me to the Moon
Under Pressure
Registered
#9
Oops. Sorry, i didn't knew that, my mistake, i agree. If i knew that - i could simply turn around that little connection port, which was destroyed during landing to Earth ground, and then this port would stay with detached engine and not with astronaut module.

I made new video, where not a single part of the ship is damaged during flight and during landing.

Detached stages are not part of the ship anymore - they are detached. They are to burn in the atmosphere - it is their fate. I just help them to burn quicker after detaching, since there is no way to save them from damage anyway. Even if i surround them in heat shields to protect from burning - they will still drop to the ground and explode - they would be still totally damaged.

If this video below is still not good enough - then please show me a picture of exact way, how stages must be connected to be accepted by your rules. I really don't understand it.
 

Catalyst_Kh

TEAM HAWK
Atlas
Fly me to the Moon
Under Pressure
Registered
#11
Would this method of connection on the picture below be accepted as a challenge passed? It looks awful to me, there are a lot of clippings, but i really don't understad how to you want it to be. I hope you will show your own picture with it.
1675140018978.png

If i already disconnected a stage, is it allowed by the rules to ignite and burn engines to full 100% and blow up that previously already disconnected stage? Or i should wait long enough for that stage to fly/drop far away and only then ignite my engines? To prevent damaging that disconnected stage at all, to keep it safe to the last.
 

Catalyst_Kh

TEAM HAWK
Atlas
Fly me to the Moon
Under Pressure
Registered
#14
Please tell me - is my second Moon mission video accepted? Did i pass?

Or do i need to redo it all third time, doing everything exactly the same way, but only detaching stages just half a second before i will burn them to explosion anyway with thrusters?

Or do i need to redo it all third time, but after detaching a stage i should wait for N seconds before i am allowed to ignite engines of new stage?

Or do i need to redo it all third time, but after detaching a stage i should wait for as long as it takes, even for many minutes, before igniting next stage in order to prevent any explosions of detaching stages?

I can't understand what are the rules. In your official rules says that detached stages can be destroyed in any way. There is no details about method of separation and which types of damage to discarded stages is allowed and which are not.

Please tell me exact algorithm or show me a video, how it should be done to be valid for this challenge.
 

Catalyst_Kh

TEAM HAWK
Atlas
Fly me to the Moon
Under Pressure
Registered
#15
Please help with another matter too.

I am trying to make a mission on Mars and have a very nasty bug problem.

When i am close to Mars surface (like less than 40 or 30 km) my speed instantly drops 2x or 4x times or settles for exact 2000 m/s no matter how much i am going to rewind 30 seconds before.

In the past it helped to restart the game from clean not broken quicksave, and then just never use time warp in the vicinity of bugged object.

But this time even when i approach Mars with steady 1x time this bug still happens each time. :confused:

Please tell me what can i do? Will you accept this challenge with such bug played through and continued to the end of the mission?

Maybe there is older version of the game, where there was no such bug, if you know such version - please tell it, i will try to find it and play Mars mission there.
 

Catalyst_Kh

TEAM HAWK
Atlas
Fly me to the Moon
Under Pressure
Registered
#16
For example with Earth's Moon and Jupiter it never ever happened with any time warps nearby, but with Earth and Mars it was very often. At least with Earth it helps to redo everything without timewarp.
 

XenonSpace

ET phone home
Voyager Quest
Man on the Moon
Registered
#17
Please tell me - is my second Moon mission video accepted? Did i pass?

Or do i need to redo it all third time, doing everything exactly the same way, but only detaching stages just half a second before i will burn them to explosion anyway with thrusters?

Or do i need to redo it all third time, but after detaching a stage i should wait for N seconds before i am allowed to ignite engines of new stage?

Or do i need to redo it all third time, but after detaching a stage i should wait for as long as it takes, even for many minutes, before igniting next stage in order to prevent any explosions of detaching stages?

I can't understand what are the rules. In your official rules says that detached stages can be destroyed in any way. There is no details about method of separation and which types of damage to discarded stages is allowed and which are not.

Please tell me exact algorithm or show me a video, how it should be done to be valid for this challenge.
The only way you know is to wait for a response. But empty stages must be detached by separators, any separators but not by burning the stages. After you have successfully detached them, you can turn on your engines and burn the dumped stages.
 

Altaïr

Space Stig, Master of gravity
Staff member
Head Moderator
Team Kolibri
Modder
TEAM HAWK
Atlas
Deja Vu
Under Pressure
Forum Legend
#19
Please tell me - is my second Moon mission video accepted? Did i pass?

Or do i need to redo it all third time, doing everything exactly the same way, but only detaching stages just half a second before i will burn them to explosion anyway with thrusters?
I looked at the video, but the method of separation is not valid indeed. I'm aware that you didn't gain a significant advantage from it (saving the weight of a separator...), but this is an official challenge, we are strict on the rules.

You have to use a separator or a docking port to detach the stage, then we don't care about what happens to dumped stages. They often get burnt in practice, and if it wasn't that they would crash when falling back anyway, so it's frankly not a problem.
 

Catalyst_Kh

TEAM HAWK
Atlas
Fly me to the Moon
Under Pressure
Registered
#20
Thanks.

It is easy for me to record new video with Moon mission, that is not a problem.

How to overcome bug with Mars mission - that is a problem. I have big doubts that you will accept Mars challenge if there is just free out-of-nowhere bonus drop in speed near the planet.
 

SHΔRD Aerospace

ET phone home
Man on the Moon
Registered
#21
Thanks.

It is easy for me to record new video with Moon mission, that is not a problem.

How to overcome bug with Mars mission - that is a problem. I have big doubts that you will accept Mars challenge if there is just free out-of-nowhere bonus drop in speed near the planet.
they probably should, as it is not your fault.
 

Pink

(Mooncrasher)
Staff member
Team Valiant
Discord Staff
Voyager Quest
Man on the Moon
Forum Legend
#22
Thanks.

It is easy for me to record new video with Moon mission, that is not a problem.

How to overcome bug with Mars mission - that is a problem. I have big doubts that you will accept Mars challenge if there is just free out-of-nowhere bonus drop in speed near the planet.
Realistic mode unfortunately has bugs at present, and they seem to be random. :confused:
 

Catalyst_Kh

TEAM HAWK
Atlas
Fly me to the Moon
Under Pressure
Registered
#23
I made new video with Mission to the Moon - it is good and clean this time, no damage, no other flaws.

I hope it finally passes.

I had to use custom world, which is identical in respect of math to default world. It was necessary to avoid that nasty game bug, which ruins videos.

Please tell if this world is okay, i want to record my Mission to Mars in this word too.

Here is the link to this word: True Scale and Distance Solar System (TSADSS) FULL RELEASE

Video:

 

Catalyst_Kh

TEAM HAWK
Atlas
Fly me to the Moon
Under Pressure
Registered
#24
I want to record mission to Mars video. Please tell: is this custom world valid for challenge?

After some tests I found out that in this world there is an easy way to avoid the bug with dropping speeds. And this way doesn't work with original default game world.
 

Pink

(Mooncrasher)
Staff member
Team Valiant
Discord Staff
Voyager Quest
Man on the Moon
Forum Legend
#25
That was an.... interesting mission. Good idea to keep the landing equipment in LEO.
I was wondering how you were going to re-enter, then you did a docking like from movie intersteller. :p

It is interesting to note that this was inefficient, angling your rocket up to move the apoapsis forward. In general to prevent wasting your fuel you should be as prograde as possible.
1675525766110.png
You can avoid that in this particular case by getting a higher apoapsis before the first stage burns out. What you lose in extra gravity losses you should more than gain back by not burning off-prograde to stop yourself from falling back down.

Additionally, you shouldn't need to slow yourself down so much before re-entering the atmosphere. If stability during re-entry is an issue, then re-design for more stability. :)

Overall the rocket didn't need to be so big, if you more optimised burns you could have decreased the amount of fuel required, which means a smaller rocket.
But it is still very impressive considering the size of the game world. :)

Congratulations on the badge, you deserve it.

I want to record mission to Mars video. Please tell: is this custom world valid for challenge?

After some tests I found out that in this world there is an easy way to avoid the bug with dropping speeds. And this way doesn't work with original default game world.
In what way is it custom?