Titan III-C MOL

[Horus Lupercal]

If someone completes someone else's beginning and brings int to an end, it's not theft.

I'm going to put this out there, but someone posting someone elses complete, highly detailed and fully working launch system (for example, SFSAbhishek rocket, and its illict copy) without any changes except a new payload or some towers as their own work isn't completing an incomplete design.

You have to lead by example, and there's not enough example to lead others by.

Citation required

but others who build on what someone else started seems to be frowned upon

citation required

There probably is flat out theft

There's no probably about it. If you'd like, I can link to at least 4 cases of out outright theft, without changes or additions made to the originals, right now.

As the moderators, you need to encourage growth, not stifle it.

Citation required.

However, in reverse of your claims, this place actually does more to mentor, teach and advise new users than anywhere else. There is an entire section dedicated solely to passing on skills, set up by the moderation team. The rank system, set up by the moderation team, creates huge amounts of innovation and reward based upon objective challenges and goals.

https://jmnet.one/sfs/forum/index.php?categories/usfs.57/
New Ranks!


But I guess, along with all the bespoke and innovate work done today that you missed, you must've missed that as well...?

 

[Cjuwa1985]

I'm going to put this out there, but someone posting someone elses complete, highly detailed and fully working launch system (for example, SFSAbhishek rocket, and its illict copy) without any changes except a new payload or some towers as their own work isn't completing an incomplete design.




Citation required



citation required




There's no probably about it. If you'd like, I can link to at least 4 cases of out outright theft, without changes or additions made to the originals, right now.




Citation required.

However, in reverse of your claims, this place actually does more to mentor, teach and advise new users than anywhere else. There is an entire section dedicated solely to passing on skills, set up by the moderation team. The rank system, set up by the moderation team, creates huge amounts of innovation and reward based upon objective challenges and goals.

https://jmnet.one/sfs/forum/index.php?categories/usfs.57/
New Ranks!


But I guess, along with all the bespoke and innovate work done today that you missed, you must've missed that as well...?

No offense, but ranking systems no matter how well intentioned are rather childish.
Top be honest also, I've rarely seen mentorship and instead seen straight out criticism, especially by moderators.

 

[Altaïr]

So, overall, is there less creativity on the forum? No, I don’t think there is, at least not if you consider how small this community is, the amount of good content produced here overwhelms the rest of the communities.

Ok, you get the point

It's unfortunate that their is elitest attitude, that kind of thinking really screws not only the creator, but others who might emulate that creativity.

Yes and no. Elitist doesn't mean that we overlook "average" builds. On the contrary, we are happy to help and give some advice.

You know, I'm not a good builder myself. My builds are efficient, but the level of detail I put into them is very basic. I practically never use bp edit, and when I do, it's generally to build outside of the build area. This is one of my most famous builds for example:

See, no awesome level of detail. And I made my best!
That launcher is rather famous for his high launch capacity and his ease of use. In one word, it does the job.

Despite of this, I've never been criticized for my lack of creativity or anything (and people have the right to criticize the moderator!)
It's not my thing, that's all, I'm good at other things, and it's fine like that!

There probably is flat out theft, but others who build on what someone else started seems to be frowned upon, I'm sorry but incomplete work should be regarded as such. If someone completes someone else's beginning and brings int to an end, it's not theft.

And nobody disagrees with this! It's perfectly allowed to download a rocket, modify it and repost it, all we ask is that credit is given for the original part of the build.

Here is an example of a thread where a member reposted some rockets:
Ultimate historical rocket pack
He posted a pack of 20 rockets, some of which are not his. He didn't even remember where the rockets were took from. He simply said that some of them were not his, and it was fine. ESP complained a little, but that's all.

That's also the problem, people don't like to see their rockets reposted without credits, and we have to take this into account too. All we really ask is the credits, that's all.

As the moderators, you need to encourage growth, not stifle it. You have to lead by example, and there's not enough example to lead others by.

I'll assume you meant "encourage creativity" instead of growth (because I don't see the interest in growing for the purpose of growing...).

To be honest I think I always encouraged positive criticism. You know, it happened once that a member was so fed up with non creative rockets that he proposed to piss their authors off until either they get better or they get out. He even started to do it. As a moderator I strongly opposed myself to this and reminded him that toxicity was not allowed, and posting a crap rocket was certainly not an excuse for this. I think I did my job...

However, if you have some suggestions about how we could improve things, you are welcome to share them.

Top be honest also, I've rarely seen mentorship and instead seen straight out criticism, especially by moderators.

Erm... Do you have an example of this?

 

[Horus Lupercal]

No offense, but ranking systems no matter how well intentioned are rather childish

Of course they are. I take it you express such sentiments to the ones on reddit and discord as well?
No?

I thought not.
They're designed to foster ideas and creativity. You know, the thing you were complaining about earlier? And strangely enough, they've been rather effective. People love leveling up, especially gamers.

Top be honest also, I've rarely seen mentorship and instead seen straight out criticism, especially by moderators

So you're not only objectively wrong, but willfully ignorant.


Dude, you seem like one of those types that do a lot of complaints and not a lot of solutions.

However, if you have some suggestions about how we could improve things, you are welcome to share them.

Erm... Do you have an example of this?

I don't think he does, or will.

We're wasting our time with this one dude. He's picked his devil and won't be convinced otherwise. I'm out.

 

[Blazer Ayanami]

No offense, but ranking systems no matter how well intentioned are rather childish.

I’m gonna need you to elaborate a little more there dude.

For starters, what is your proposal? A system based on likes and messages so easydoers get all the ranks and privileges by posting “yeeeeee boi”, “lol”, stuff like that, and not contributing a thing to the community?

On the other hand the ranking system is designed so everyone can rank up based upon his/her skills only. It gives people’s ideas/goals/objectives to show their job and get awarded for it.

Top be honest also, I've rarely seen mentor ship.

Really? Whenever someone posts a rocket, no matter what rocket it is, everyone is there providing suggestions on how to make it better. Did you miss that too?

There probably is flat out theft, but others who build on what someone else started seems to be frowned upon, I'm sorry but incomplete work should be regarded as such. If someone completes someone else's beginning and brings int to an end, it's not theft.

There is a lot of flat thievery, and to be fair when someone like SFSAbhishek, or SSA, or 4kids, put all the effort, time and patience to make a cool rocket, they deserved to be credited for it. And we have nothing against other people who just take the rocket and “finish it”, as you said. All we ask is, if you are going to “finish” someone’s else’s design you have to credit the original creator. That’s it, that’s all we ask.

But unfortunately, that is not what commonly happens, what commonly happens is User B taking User A’s design exactly as User A posted it, presenting it as his/her own and trying to take credit for User A’s design. That is punishable and many “Users A” don’t like it.

Now you think about it. These very same rockets you’ve posted on this thread that took you all that time and effort, would you like if I come and just take them, make a change or two, and just repost them as mine without giving you any credits for it. You wouldn’t like that, would you?

 

[Cjuwa1985]

Ok, you get the point


Yes and no. Elitist doesn't mean that we overlook "average" builds. On the contrary, we are happy to help and give some advice.

You know, I'm not a good builder myself. My builds are efficient, but the level of detail I put into them is very basic. I practically never use bp edit, and when I do, it's generally to build outside of the build area. This is one of my most famous builds for example:
View attachment 64657
See, no awesome level of detail. And I made my best!
That launcher is rather famous for his high launch capacity and his ease of use. In one word, it does the job.

Despite of this, I've never been criticized for my lack of creativity or anything (and people have the right to criticize the moderator!)
It's not my thing, that's all, I'm good at other things, and it's fine like that!


And nobody disagrees with this! It's perfectly allowed to download a rocket, modify it and repost it, all we ask is that credit is given for the original part of the build.

Here is an example of a thread where a member reposted some rockets:
Ultimate historical rocket pack
He posted a pack of 20 rockets, some of which are not his. He didn't even remember where the rockets were took from. He simply said that some of them were not his, and it was fine. ESP complained a little, but that's all.

That's also the problem, people don't like to see their rockets reposted without credits, and we have to take this into account too. All we really ask is the credits, that's all.


I'll assume you meant "encourage creativity" instead of growth (because I don't see the interest in growing for the purpose of growing...).

To be honest I think I always encouraged positive criticism. You know, it happened once that a member was so fed up with non creative rockets that he proposed to piss their authors off until either they get better or they get out. He even started to do it. As a moderator I strongly opposed myself to this and reminded him that toxicity was not allowed, and posting a crap rocket was certainly not an excuse for this. I think I did my job...

However, if you have some suggestions about how we could improve things, you are welcome to share them.


Erm... Do you have an example of this?

I happen to recall some complaining regarding that pack, because they weren't all his original works.

 

[Cjuwa1985]

I happen to recall some complaining regarding that pack, because they weren't all his original works.

Personally, if I post something on here, and make it readily available to people, I'm kinda giving up my thoughts to it, because I've given it willfully top the public.

 

[Altaïr]

I happen to recall some complaining regarding that pack, because they weren't all his original works.

Yes, Etherian Space Program. And all he asked was the credit, here is his post:

Nobody has talked about theft, the moderation didn't reproach him anything.

Personally, if I post something on here, and make it readily available to people, I'm kinda giving up my thoughts to it, because I've given it willfully top the public.

And this is nice from you! But most people are still attached to their builds, and we can understand that too. You know, we had several dramas in the past because of such situations. Again, reposting a rocket is allowed, it must only be done with the necessary courtesy measures. If you wanted to be credited for your builds this would be your right too.

 

[Spaceflightsimperson]

Sure, letting others use and play with things is the whole reason for even taking the time to make things. That's something this forum often forgets, including the people in charge of it.

Thanks!