The Basics

Horus Lupercal

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#26
I've assumed a pair of broadswords for stage 2 mate

With a build like this, you have to take into account the time frame from the boosters going to the end of stage one. Because your mass has changed when the boosters disappear, your Dv will also.

Screenshot_2019-04-01-13-31-13.png


Stage one with booster = 2633m/s
Stage one after booster separation = 819m/s
Stage 2 to burnout = 2184m/s

Total 5637 m/s
 
T

TtTOtW

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#27
I've assumed a pair of broadswords for stage 2 mate

With a build like this, you have to take into account the time frame from the boosters going to the end of stage one. Because your mass has changed when the booster disappear, your Dv will also.

View attachment 16374

Stage one with booster = 2633m/s
Stage one after booster separation = 819m/s
Stage 2 to burnout = 2184m/s

Total 5637 m/s
Shit... yes I got my separation bits wrong. But he used one broadsword
 

Horus Lupercal

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#28
Shit... yes I got my separation bits wrong. But he used one broadsword
Ah, it won't matter Dv wise except it'll be lighter. It just means his TWR and burn time will change
 

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#30
Jez 10, I'm gonna do a piece on boosters at some point, but you have to account for the fuel and weight at each side of the booster drop off.

So like your stage one has 144t of fuel, and each booster has 108t

That means they (because they have identical fuel consumptions) will burn out at different times (153s and 115s respectively). So the last 38s of time for the stage, the wet/dry mass (for the purpose of calculating your Dv) is a lot less cos you're minus the empty tank and engine weight slowing you down
 

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#31
Jez 10, I'm gonna do a piece on boosters at some point, but you have to account for the fuel and weight at each side of the booster drop off.

So like your stage one has 144t of fuel, and each booster has 108t

That means they (because they have identical fuel consumptions) will burn out at different times (153s and 115s respectively). So the last 38s of time for the stage, the wet/dry mass (for the purpose of calculating your Dv) is a lot less cos you're minus the empty tank and engine weight slowing you down
Thanks.
 

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#32
I have question about this.
Lets say I have a Hawk, with an ISP of 250, I place two on the first stage of my fluffy puffy poodle, do I simply multiply the ISP to two?
To answer the initial question, if all your engines are the same then the ISP is the same, even if you are using a thousand of them. If you were mixing and matching, then see the example above on how to calculate it all
 

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#33
Lets make a lander.

Landers come in many shapes and sizes and even jobs and can range from a probe with legs, to a rover, to a 500t nuclear reactor and habitation colony.
They all have one thing in common though. They need to make it to the ground without suffering from a spontaneous disassembly event (crashing and breaking up).
So, again, with designing your lander, have a job spec and destination in mind.
  • Are you just looking at getting it there?
  • Do you want it back?
  • Do you want it to move/explore on arrival?
  • Where are you going?
  • What is the gravity like?
  • Does it have an atmosphere?
All of these factors will affect what your build will eventually look like and what capabilities it will need.

Again, we're going to go super simple with ours and do your bog standard 'Apollo' style moon landing. (Identical to the example a few posts ago...).

That means a manned, return mission to an airless, low gravity rock. Considerations for this.
  1. You can include the Dv of the 'lander' portion. After all, you're going to be using it for the lunar descent and recovery to Earth phases of the mission.
  2. Parachutes don't work on the moon. Which means you're going to need to make a powered descent onto the moon. TWR is going to be a factor here.
  3. Parachutes do work on Earth. So your recovery landing doesn't need to be powered unless you want to. With parachutes though, you have to take into account what skydivers call 'wing loading'. Basically, a parachute can only bring down a certain weight at a safe speed. Exceed that weight, and your descent rate will be too fast and you'll crash anyway. In SFS, there's no data (yet) on parachute capabilities at certain atmospheric densities so it's mostly trial and error and take into account not all atmospheres are created equal...
  4. You'll need to take the local gravity into account for the lander TWR for the escape burn (but not for ISP or Dv). If you're unsure of the local g, either check the text file for that body, or google it as they're all set to real perimeters anyway.
With all that in mind I've created a very small lander. A manned capsule (manned mission, remember) with a parachute on top for the recovery phase, an engine at the bottom for the moon landing, some legs so it doesn't fall over and some fuel to burn (1 medium tank).

That looks like this on screen.

Screenshot_2019-04-01-10-41-53.png


Because it weighs so little, we've gone with a grasshopper engine and the TWR is sufficient for lunar escape (remember, it's 1.42, not 9.8 when you're working this out yourself).

But lets run the numbers to be sure (to be sure).
  • TWR: Thrust (96kN) / 16t = 6. Then divide that by gravity (1.42) = 4.22 (remember, we're going to the moon, so I've used lunar g)
  • Dv: 9.8 x 244.89 x LN (16/7) = 1984.02 m/s
That's the lander squared, now lets build something to throw it into space.

Here's where things get interesting. Your lander is 16t. Now to double that for stage 2 would require a 32t stage making the wet mass 48t. Which is too much for a Broadsword to handle. But a hawk would be too powerful, and wasteful for the task. So I'm going to use a broadsword as i need efficiency not thrust and cap the overall weight to 40t so the stage is still in that TWR of just over one.
So, i place a long basic tank and a broadsword down with a separator. 24.7 tons for a wet mass of 40.7t.

Screenshot_2019-04-01-10-41-41.png


TWR: 400kN/40.7t = 9.82 / 9.8 = 1.002 (squeaked it)
Dv: 9.8 x 281.49 x LN (40.7/18) = 1610.66m/s

That means that so far we've got 1984 + 1610 = 3594m/s of Dv to use.
Which isn't enough TWR or Dv to make a moon landing work.

So, how much do we actually need?
If you go to the Dv Map I referenced previous (created by the resident Tame Astronaut) and it'll show that we need:
  • roughly 2800m/s to get to orbit
  • 640 to encounter the moon
  • 39 to stay inside lunar gravity
  • 122 for a low lunar orbit at 332 m/s orbital speed
  • at least 332 to bring that to zero for landing.
  • Then 332 for take off to orbit
  • 122+39 to escape lunar gravity
  • 640 back in Earths atmosphere
That equals roughly 5286m/s with some fudge for fun.

With this in mind, we'll need to build a stage one with at least 1600m/s. Which will likely mean a hawk with all the fuel you can get inside a good TWR.

Screenshot_2019-04-01-10-41-34.png


I settled on 2 long, one medium and a short tank with a separator. That's 59.3t with 49.5t of fuel. I know that's under our 1:2:4 ratio, but the numbers are sufficient for task.
Rocket weight is now 100t
9.8 x 250.74 x LN(100/49.5) = 1678.79m/s

Screenshot_2019-03-29-02-26-13.png


Total Dv = 5273m/s. Will it be enough? Tune in to the next exciting episode...
 
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Horus Lupercal

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#34
Space Stations then.

Jez 10, this is the one which explains boosters dude

We're not going to build a full station at the moment, just a starting 4 way hub and a worker drone. This is always a good basis, you can add anything you like to it afterwards as you get better with designing and your builds become more complex. And assembly drones are worth the weight, so you don't have to put RCS all over your builds to move them and for capturing incoming payloads. Mine have engines as well as RCS for better movement and so it can shift payloads in the thousand of tons.

Anyway, because its payload i'm not interested in its TWR or Dv. It's going to be inserted into the right place by the L/V
All up though, its 124t and looks this. (Weight is minus the fairing)

Screenshot_2019-04-02-13-32-51.png


That's a lot of weight. The payload is more that the combined weight of the previous mission combined. This means we're going to have to assemble some serious firepower to get it to orbit and use bigger engines, more engines and (because its a good teaching opportunity) external boosters as well.

To get that 1:2 ratio for stage 2 it's going to need to weigh roughly 200t, so the engine set up is going to need to be able to shunt over 300tons. To go a step further in our thought process, we're going to add more engine types to our selection base. In this case, I'm going to compare both of the second stage type engines, the broadsword and the frontier, and decide which is most suitable.

Broadsword
  • Thrust: 400kN. Needs 9 engines weighing 22.4t rated at 3600kN for TWR 1.11
  • ISP: 281.49 seconds.
  • Dv fitted to stage 2: 9.8 x 281.49 x LN(329.3/167.3) = 1868.08m/s
Frontier
  • Thrust: 1120kN. Needs 3 engines weighing 24 tons rated at 3360kN for TWR 1.03
  • ISP: 285.71 seconds.
  • Dv fitted to stage 2: 9.8 x 285.71 x LN (330.8/168.8) = 1883.83m/s

As you can see, using a direct comparison (the wet/dry weights differ only because of the engine set up, everything else is identical), the frontier generates a better Dv because of its superior ISP despite being heavier and less powerful overall. And, placing down 3 engines is a lot easier than trying to fit 9 about the place, even if they are smaller.

To that end, I've fitted a pack of 3x frontiers and it looks like this.

Screenshot_2019-04-02-13-32-36.png


(It says TWR 1.11 because it's accounting for the grasshoppers and ions in the payload as well.)

For stage one then, we're going to roll out the big guns. A 500+t combined core and booster set up, with all the thump required for nearly 900t of rocket.

When selecting to use boosters or not, you need to take a few things into consideration.
  • The most important part is burn time.
When is your booster going to run out of fuel.

That has a huge impact on placement, as if your booster has a longer burn time than the core then it'll need to be attached to an upper stage or jettisoned with fuel still onboard, wasting launch weight that could've been used elsewhere. Also, when the booster drops will massively effect your Dv and you'll need to work that out.​

  • Engine types. The core and the boosters may have different engines. But if they're firing at the same time then you'll need to calculate the correct ISP otherwise your Dv will be off. You also need to bear in mind that after separation, the ISP will change again.
  • TWR. Boosters are fantastic for generating lots of early, disposable thump when you need it and being easy to get rid of afterwards, and like staging, that's really good for Dv. The downside is you need to ensure that you have sufficient thrust left to continue lifting what is left after you've kicked away the boosters.
For this example, I've gone with 2x 100t boosters and a 300t main core attached with a side separator.

Now, to get 900t off the ground is going to take power. Lots and lots of power. And since the boosters are all about maximum thump, I'm going to put the most powerful engine in game on them. The Titan.

The Titan has the highest thrust rating, the highest fuel consumption and joint lowest ISP of all the engines.

So, lets run the boosters data fitted with a single Titan engine

Screenshot_2019-04-05-12-22-44.png


Single / pair
  • Wet mass: 115.25t / 230.5t
  • Dry mass: 20.75t / 41.5
  • TWR: 2.65. It's so high so it can contribute more to the lift than the core engines.
  • ISP: 244.89 seconds
  • Burn time: 75.6 seconds
  • Thrust: 3000kN / 6000kN
The stage one core will be 286.9t all up (fuel, tanks, separators) but not including engines. This is because we need to decide exactly what engine combination we require for the stage to continue lifting everything once the boosters have gone.
Stage 1: 286.9
Stage 2: 206.8
Payload: 124
Core = 617.7 tons

Also, you have to take into account that whilst the booster is burning, so is the core. So you can knock off 75.6 seconds worth of fuel from the core weight. Obviously we don't know exactly much that is yet, but I'd estimate this point at least 100t and thus will require about 5,000-5,500kN of thrust.
Many combinations can achieve this, but we will compare 2 versions so we can go through multi engine ISP calculations.

Version 1. 2 x Titan engines
  • Total thrust: 6000kN
  • Total Consumption: 2.5t per second
  • ISP: Because the engines are identical, you can use the ISP of one engine which is 244.89 seconds.
To prove that, we are going to work it out anyway.
  • Firstly, you take g and multiply it by your total consumption in tons. You use Earths g as a constant regardless of where you are. Essentially you are saying i am using x amount of Earth weighted fuel.
9.8 x 2.5 = 24.5​

  • Then, take your overall thrust and divide it by your Earth weighted consumption total.
6000 / 24.5 = 244.89​

  • Core weight at launch = 636.8t
  • Core weight at booster separation (after 75.6 seconds, burning 2.5t per second) = 447 tons
  • Core TWR at booster separation (local g divided by force / mass ) 6000 / 447 = 13.42 / 9.8 = 1.36
Version 2. 1 x Titan and 2 x Frontier engines
  • Total thrust: 5240kN
  • Total consumption: 2.05t per second
  • ISP. Needs calculating because you're using different engine types. And this is going to work exactly as above.
  • Firstly, you take g and multiply it by your total consumption in tons.
9.8 x 2.05 = 20.09​

  • Then, take your overall thrust and divide it by your Earth weighted consumption total.
5240 / 20.09 = 260.82 seconds​

  • Core weight at launch = 643.7t
  • Core weight at booster separation (after 75.6 seconds, burning 2.04t a second) =489.47 tons
  • Core TWR at booster separation (local g divided by force / mass ) 5240 / 489.47 = 10.70 / 9.8 = 1.09

Screenshot_2019-04-02-13-32-19.png


That's each segment of the build accounted for. Now, lets combine them to generate an accurate Dv based upon its burn and separation profile from launch to burn out.

Screenshot_2019-04-02-13-31-49.png

Screenshot_2019-04-02-13-31-44.png


Launch
(stage one to booster separation)
  • Wet mass (that is everything. Core, boosters, payload.)
    • 874.2 tons
  • Dry mass (that isn't to burn out so doesn't include all of stage ones fuel. This is at T+75.6 seconds when the boosters burn out but are still attached)
    • 530.22 tons
  • Combined thrust (this is the core engines and the booster firing, 3 x titans and 2 frontiers)
    • 11240kN
  • Combined fuel consumption
    • 4.55t per second
  • TWR
    • 11240 / 874 = 12.86 / 9.8 = 1.31
  • ISP
    • 4.55 x 9.8 = 44.59
    • 11240 / 44.59 = 252.07 seconds
  • Dv
    • 9.8 x 252.07 x LN (874.2/530.22) = 1235.20 m/s
Booster Separation to Stage One burn out
  • Wet Mass (This is different to the above end state or dry mass because we've also got rid of the booster dead weight)
    • 488.72 tons
  • Dry Mass
    • 387.2 tons
  • Combined Thrust
    • 5240 kN
  • Combined Fuel Consumption
    • 2.05t per second
  • TWR
    • 5240 / 488.72 / 9.8 = 1.09
  • ISP
    • 2.05 x 9.8 = 20.09
    • 5240 / 20.09 = 260.82 seconds
  • Dv
    • 9.8 x 260.82 x LN(488.72/387.2) = 595.18 m/s
Stage 2 Burn
(Stage one separated)
  • Wet Mass
    • 330.8t
  • Dry Mass
    • 168.8t
  • Combined Thrust
    • 3360 kN
  • Combined Consumption
    • 1.2t per second
  • TWR
    • 3360 / 330.8 / 9.8 = 1.03
  • ISP
    • 1.2 x 9.8 = 11.76
    • 3360 / 11.76 = 285.71
  • Dv
    • 9.8 x 285.17 x L(330.8 / 169.8) = 1883.83 m/s
Total Dv
  • Stage one complete - 1235.20 + 595.18 = 1830.18m/s
  • Stage 2 = 1883.83m/s
  • Rocket = 3714.01 m/s

That will get our space station hub and drone into a decent orbit
 
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Horus Lupercal

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#35
For completeness, lets assume we didn't throw away the boosters. How would that affect the Dv?

So, it's T+75.6 seconds and the boosters are now empty.
  • Wet mass is 530.22t.
  • Dry mass is 387.2t (of the stage) + 41.5t dry mass of the booster = 428.7t
  • ISP (is the same as only the core engines are burning) = 260.82 seconds
  • Dv is 9.8 x 260.82 x LN (530.22 / 428.7) = 543.24 m/s

Your original is 595.18. That means you're gaining an extra 50m/s just by dropping them, everything else considered.
 

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#36
Terminology

A lot of big, inclusive terms and acronyms get bandied around this place, with little explanation as to what they mean.
To that end before I go any further, it'll be a good time to name and explain a few of them as it'll help with the next few posts.

Orbit
Everything in the solar system is attracted to everything else. This force is gravity. And I mean everything. Your chair, the bolt holding your bed together, the girl you like at school. All of these things exert a force, pulling you towards them and vice versa.
You just don't notice, because the force is almost negligible unless the objects are massive.
Objects like a planet, for example...
Earth is so big that it drags everything towards it and doesn't like letting go. So whenever something is launched away from it, it will always try and fall back towards it in an arc. Now, an orbit is essentially an arc so big that it misses Earth completely and keeps going around in a circle. It's still falling towards Earth, but never hits it.
How this happens is that object is moving so quickly that gravity hasn't got time to make it strike the ground before it goes off the side of the world. This speed is called escape velocity and varies from place to place.

Apoapsis / Periapsis
These are the furthest and closest points of an orbit from the body they are going around. Essentially the highest and lowest points of that arc. They're also the slowest and fastest points of your orbit as well, with gravity slowing you almost to a stop at the height of your arc and accelerating you around and past at the bottom.

Eccentricity
Think of it as how irregular (or eccentric) your orbit is. Basically, an eccentricity of zero is a perfectly circular orbit. As the number gets higher, the more oval the shape becomes.

Karmen Line
This is an invisible line that that separates space from atmosphere. The altitude of this line varies from place to place in game, and is set at 30km for Earth. Breaching the Karmen Line won't automatically put you into orbit but is required for a sub-orbital flight.

LO
Low Orbit. The limits of LO can be debated but any orbit with its apoapsis and periapsis higher than the Karmen Line is considered in LO and is your first stop before going elsewhere in the system. Usually has a place name in the middle, example Earths is called Low Earth Orbit or LEO

SOI
Sphere of Influence. Another invisible line that denotes the area around a body that its gravitational pull is dominant over others. Leaving one SOI usually means entering another (like leaving Earths SOI will put you into Solar SOI and in orbit around the sun).

Prograde/Retrograde
Because space is an infinite, 3 dimensional thing with no reference points, saying things like 'left' and 'right' aren't going to work when it comes to burn directions. Prograde and retrograde are used to indicate which direction you should burn to achieve an effect. Burning prograde means burn in the direction of travel, essentially speeding you up.
Retrograde has the opposite effect.
This allows you to manipulate your orbit by spending Dv to raise and lower your apoapsis/periapsis to maneuver around the solar system.

Coreward/Spinward
Again, in a place with no directions or reference points, a way of describing a direction of travel comes in handy. Coreward means inwards towards the core of the system (essentially, the sun, but it can be used inside a planets SOI, for example Jupiter) and spinward is the opposite, heading out towards the edge of the SOI.

Transfer Window
This is a part of an orbit where if you burn in the correct direction then you will adjust your orbit to achieve an encounter with a target body. This is usually, but not always, at the apoapsis/periapsis areas of the orbit using something called the Oberth Maneuver (explained in detail here by Space Stig).

Injection Burn
This is where you fire your engines inside the transfer window to burn towards a target body. They're usually labelled as trans-[place] injection burns (for example the moon one is known as a trans-lunar injection or TLI).

Gravity Assist
Using the gravitational pull of a body to accelerate or decelerate your spacecraft by entering its SOI at the correct angle and being thrown out the otherside. Also known as a slingshot and can be used to different effects. If done correctly can save a lot of Dv in the process. See Altaïr post for a more indepth explanation on how it all works.

Aerobrake
Similar to the gravitational assist in that you are using a body to adjust your speed without spending Dv, in this case its atmosphere to slow your speed down using drag. Very handy when working around Venus, Earth and Mars as it can be used to lower an orbit from a long injection burn or create better conditions for a landing sequence.
 
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Horus Lupercal

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#38
Mission 1: Satellite to MEO (Medium Earth Orbit).

Lets get some fuel burnt then. First up, mission one, the satellite we built. This is going to get sent up to MEO (200km+) as a start point of a communications network.

As this is our first launch, i'm going to go through it from start to finish with you. Again, sorry if it is teaching the reader to suck eggs but that's the point of this.

Firstly, load the blueprint,

Screenshot_2019-03-30-04-54-28.png


give it a final once over and press launch. It may say something about thrust or parachutes or whatever at the point, but because our build doesn't need parachutes we'll load it straight out.

Screenshot_2019-04-09-09-35-31.png


On the right, there's a percentage bar and a button saying off with 'toggle engine on and off' next to it. As you may imagine, that turns on and off the engines (shock). Press it once to get rid of the annoying message, and again to keep the engines off. Notice the engines didn't light up? Thats because you need to select the engines you want to fire up.
But before that, I want to draw your attention to the bars on the left. These are your fuel gauges and correspond to all the fuel tanks on your build. So 3 gauges mean there are 3 tanks. Points to note, they aren't in stage order and they aren't labelled either, so figuring out which is which is only possible when they're moving. Also, it doesn't indicate the number of actual individual fuel tanks in the build, but the number of whole tanks.
So for example, this build has 3 sections and will register as 3 fuel tanks, despite each tank containing multiple building tanks. As long as a building tank overlap connects to another, it will be 'one' tank for the purpose of drawing fuel, regardless of how many or what configuration.

Now, we can turn on the engines required for that stage. In this case its just the one hawk, press on it and it should say 'engine on'. The throttle bar is sat at 50%, drag that up to 100% and then press the off button. There should be a slight roaring noise as fuel is turned into light, noise and heat, lifting your rocket into the sky.

Screenshot_2019-04-09-09-35-40.png


As you pass 2m/s, a direction arrow will appear onscreen. This is the direction you are moving in relation to the body that is gravitationally influencing you, NOT the direction you are burning in. For the moment, this will point roughly straight up as you burn away from the ground.

Once your rocket is in motion, switch to map view and press on the moving triangle (which represents your rocket) and it should say FOLLOW. Press on that, and the map view will follow your rocket as it moves skywards.

Screenshot_2019-04-09-09-35-48.png


At the top right will be 2 rapidly changing numbers.
  • One is your rough altitude. I say rough altitude as it generally does work to average distance above the ground when in orbit, then your actual terrain distance to the hard stuff below you. There are a few instances this doesn't work. Like on Mars, it can read at 2,500m above the terrain but you've actually smashed yourself into Olympus Mons before you've been allowed to open your parachutes.
  • The other is your velocity in the direction the arrow is pointing. Again, this is relative to the gravity you are being governed by.

Flight Path
This isn't a definitive flight path, or the best one. Its a good generic one but each build (and builder), depending on capability, ability and experience does it differently. Don't ask for the 'perfect' one, as we're trying to work that one out ourselves.
Like when I was a space dweeb, I used to burn almost straight up til the Karman line, do a 90 degree turn and then burn hard for escape velocity. And then wonder why almost everything crashed unless it had a ridiculously high TWR (6 or some damned thing) but I'd burn out of fuel and crash anyway.
The first 'checkpoint' as such, is roughly 2,500-3,000m. For the moment, we want to just be burning straight up and gaining altitude as quickly as possible. This is so we can clear the hardest part of the launch when you're fighting gravity and drag the most. But, we're going to have to come over at some point, and that is at roughly this altitude. Press the right (no one goes left!) button until the rocket is tilted at roughly 15 degrees. It doesn't have to be exact, and you'll see the direction arrow slowly coming over as well until it points off the nose.
Switching to map view now and you'll see your triangle with a white line extending from the ground, through your rocket, up and then back down to the ground. This is your ballistic arc and is essentially the route you will take if you cut the engines and no forces other than gravity acted upon you. Obviously if you did that right now then drag would cut that arc massively but on an airless rock (the moon), you would fly that exact line until you impacted the ground.
The top of the arc is your apogee (its labelled Apoapsis, but that's just the game), or if you're a shooter, the culminating point of your ballistic path.

But we want to get that white line out of the atmosphere to above the Karman line, so we're going to keep burning for the sky.
When we hit the next checkpoint at roughly 5,000m, start bringing the nose over a bit more to roughly 30 degrees and making that arc even wider.
And again at:
  • 10,000m to roughly 45 degrees.
  • 15,000m to about 60 degrees.
You don't want to go any further over than 70 degrees until your apogee hits beyond the karman line. This allows you to gain height as well as speed in the upper atmosphere.

Screenshot_2019-04-09-10-03-08.png

Screenshot_2019-04-09-10-03-42.png


At some point (after 76.9 seconds actually), stage one will burn out. Its very unlikely you'll be in orbit at this point. In fact, you'll probably have the apogee just breaking 30km-ish.

Screenshot_2019-04-09-10-04-14.png


Now, here comes the experience and dead reckoning part. Because you are still sub-orbital, unless you get this next bit right you'll still crash into the ground. You need to be attaining 1667m/s+ before your rocket re-enters the atmosphere.
Now, the most efficient way is to stage when appropriate and keep burning until your apogee is clear of the atmosphere. Then cut engines until you are at the culmination point of the arc and then burn prograde until your arc becomes a circle.
This is the best way and gives you a lovely first time circular orbit to show to your friends.

However.

There are several 'problems' with this and it all comes down to TWR and Dv. Because from the culmination point onwards you are falling back to Earth and also, every second you are not burning in the atmosphere, drag is slowing you down, meaning you are spending more Dv getting back to speed.
So.
  • If you have a high TWR and plenty of Dv, then go ahead.
  • If your TWR is quite low though, you are going to have to either start your orbital burn earlier or allow yourself more height before cut off to give yourself the time required to accelerate to escape velocity.
Unfortunately, there's no hard and fast rules for this (cos air resistance is a turd in game) so it is very much a matter of trial and error.

Some people, especially if they're aiming for a set orbit height, will burn up until the apogee is that specific height and then go prograde. That gives them much more time to get into an orbit before they come back down.

Anyway, I mong it hard by burning too late and end up slightly elliptical at apoapsis 64km / periapsis 39km.

Screenshot_2019-04-09-10-13-01.png


But we're in LEO with fuel to burn and another 150km to climb. So we burn prograde at either end until one end (which will become your apoapsis and move to the opposite side of your orbit eventually because its your highest point, regardless of where you started your burn) is roughly around 200km.

Screenshot_2019-04-09-10-13-32.png


Once you've achieved that, wait until your little triangle is at the apoapsis before you burn again. That may take a while, so use the arrows next to the map button to time warp until you are if you don't want to wait that long.

Once there, simply rotate to face prograde again (direction arrow...) and burn into the periaposis comes up. As it come closer, it'll start to slide off. You can ignore that and just have an ish 200km orbit, or if you're a perfectionist, keep chasing the apoapsis and gradually you'll get a lovely circular orbit all of your own.

I wasn't bothered, so here it is at apo202 / peri201.

Screenshot_2019-04-09-10-14-16.png


Mission finished?

Not yet.

Firstly, you need to get rid of the second stage tank and engine. Now the purists will be like 'de-orbit it'.

No.

Separate and select 'clear debris' (or destroy it, whichever). We could de-orbit it. Hell, with the amount of juice left, I could powered land the damned thing.
But today is not that day.

Screenshot_2019-04-09-10-14-59.png


Then, press on the solar panels to unfurl them.

Screenshot_2019-04-09-10-15-07.png


Now, you're asking why it has an engine and RCS, if we never used it? Because now you have the option of moving it around the SOI into other orbits if you want to.

Right, give that a crack. Once you've nailed it, come back for mission two.
 
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#39
ISP
Specific Impulse

Sticking with the car theme, ISP is simply how fuel efficient an engine is. In car terms, that’s distance/fuel (miles per gallon for example). In space, that doesn't work because theoretically once you're in deep space with no forces acting on you, then you will continue in motion forever at a constant speed covering all the distance in the universe for free. (I know technically that’s the same for a car but you have drivetrain resistance, rolling resistance, drag etc. all acting on the car, trying to slow it, thus you need to keep applying fuel to maintain a speed).
ISP is essentially a measure of how much of fuel quantity it takes to produce an amount of thrust. The less fuel an engine burns to achieve a specific impulse, the more efficient it is.
Now, 2 things about ISP
  1. It's measured in seconds
  2. It does take gravity into account.
Why seconds, and not lbs, kg, N or whatever? Because NASA, when they were working all this stuff out, was a mix of 'borrowed' German scientists and Americans. One side (Zee Germans) wanted to use Metric. The Americans wanted to use Imperial. After what I'd like to assume was a good natured fight involving a lot of spanners and slide rules, they decided on a unit of measurement everyone knew, but wasn’t in either system. Seconds.
And with gravity, you use Earths gravity 9.8 regardless of where you are. Why? Because its used as a constant, a benchmark for comparison. It allows you to compare an ISP of say a Rocketdyne F1 Engine with a titan without worrying if someone has used...Mars...as a constant for the titan.
How to work out ISP then. Easy, the information pops up when you select an engine will tell you its ISP. And as long as you only use that engine, regardless of how many, the rockets ISP will be that number.
Things get complicated when you're using engine combinations, or boosters with different engines. Even though each engine is using is own ISP, when it comes to working out the Delta V (coming soon...) of that rocket, you need a combined ISP of the engines that are being used at the time.
There are 2 ways of doing this.
Hard Way:
  1. you need the exhaust velocity of an engine. To work this out, you multiply thrust by fuel consumption.
  2. Then, you multiply that, by g (9.8) to get an individual engine ISP
  3. Do that for all engines
  4. Now, for each individual engine, divide its force by its own ISP. Do this for all of the engines and add the totals together. Then take the combined total of all the thrust your engines create and divide that by the all the totals you've just worked out.
Or

Easy Way.
  1. Add up the combined thrust of your engines
  2. Add up the combined fuel consumption of your engines.
  3. Take your gravitational constant (9.8) and multiply it by your total consumption.
  4. Finally, take your combined thrust and divide it by the answer you just got.
  5. BOOM. ISP Baby.
sorry this whole thing confuses me because the number in the menu is proving difficult for me to reverse engineer to be able to understand

the lsp of an engine is measured in seconds but this doesn't seem to account for the amount of fuel being used

i originally assumed it meant like "okay so if you add this amount of fuel (fuel consumption number in tonnes) then it will last (lsp)"

but that's wrong because the hawk engine lasts like 0.4 nanoseconds with it's fuel consumption number as an amount of fuel

i'm not sure if I have 4.16 iq or what but I don't understand how you can just say like "250s of lsp" and then boom

i'm probably reading this wrong but eh
 

Horus Lupercal

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#40
sorry this whole thing confuses me because the number in the menu is proving difficult for me to reverse engineer to be able to understand

the lsp of an engine is measured in seconds but this doesn't seem to account for the amount of fuel being used

i originally assumed it meant like "okay so if you add this amount of fuel (fuel consumption number in tonnes) then it will last (lsp)"

but that's wrong because the hawk engine lasts like 0.4 nanoseconds with it's fuel consumption number as an amount of fuel

i'm not sure if I have 4.16 iq or what but I don't understand how you can just say like "250s of lsp" and then boom

i'm probably reading this wrong but eh
Yeah, ISP and consumption are different things.

Consumption is how fast it drinks fuel, ISP is how efficiently it turns that amount of fuel into force.

To make it easier, ignore the word seconds as it's just there as a unit. Essentially it's how many units of force you get for a given unit of fuel.
The unit in question itself doesn't matter really, hence why they settled on seconds to save arguments in the office
 
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Horus Lupercal

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#42
>seconds

really sorry for my stupid af-ness but I still don't get it :L
Ha, ignore seconds as a concept of time. It is simply a unit of measurement, same as an inch or kilometre
 

Horus Lupercal

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#45
The only reason g gets involved is to give the fuel mass an actual weight, and again is just a reference point. You can technically use any number for g, everyone just uses Earths because then everyones reference numbers are the same and using Newtons
 
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#46
The only reason g gets involved is to give the fuel mass an actual weight, and again is just a reference point. You can technically use any number for g, everyone just uses Earths because then everyones reference numbers are the same and using newtons
this is the reason why I don't play sfs often BECAUSE I OVERTHINK THINGS TOO MUCH
 

Horus Lupercal

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#47
Then bring it down a notch or 5...

I didn't understand it either until very, very recently. I don't have a mathematical / higher education / educated background.
It's only through a lot of reading, a fair amount of running numbers and lots of patience by Altair that I semi-understand what is going on here to the extent where I can attempt to teach it.

All ISP means is for an amount of fuel, is you get an amount of thrust. So with the hawk, if you put in a lb of fuel, you'll get 250.74lbs of thrust. You chuck in 1kg of fuel, you'll get 250.74kg of thrust. You put in 0.468kN of fuel (one second of fuel) you will get 1120kN back (250.74seconds).
That doesn't mean you get 250.74 seconds of burn time. As I said, ignore the second as a unit of time, and just consider a unit of measurement.
 
#48
Then bring it down a notch or 5...

I didn't understand it either until very, very recently. I don't have a mathematical / higher education / educated background.
It's only through a lot of reading, a fair amount of running numbers and lots of patience by Altair that I semi-understand what is going on here to the extent where I can attempt to teach it.

All ISP means is for an amount of fuel, is you get an amount of thrust. So with the hawk, if you put in a lb of fuel, you'll get 250.74lbs of thrust. You chuck in 1kg of fuel, you'll get 250.74kg of thrust. You put in 0.468kN of fuel (one second of fuel) you will get 1120kN back (250.74seconds).
That doesn't mean you get 250.74 seconds of burn time. As I said, ignore the second as a unit of time, and just consider a unit of measurement.
okay I get it now, thank
 

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#49
okay I get it now, thank
If anything, treat ISP like a microwave. You don't have to know why it works, but it's really easy to make it work for you.

And don't beat yourself up with it. That's our job.
 

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#50
That Isp concept is difficult to understand indeed :)
An important think to notice is that it's just an efficiency parameter, that is not supposed to have any physical meaning.
For any engine, you may want to maximize thrust, while minimizing fuel consumption right? So an interesting indicator for that would be:
Thrust / (fuel consumption)
The higher, the better.
For example, an engine that provides twice more thrust while only consuming 1.5 times more fuel is obviously more efficient. That's what that indicator tells you.

In fact, that indicator (Thrust / Fuel-consumption) is equal to g×Isp.
So Isp is simply that indicator divided by g.
It may be disturbing, but adding the g factor just makes it proportional. When you want to compare 2 engines, the result is still the same (the most efficient has both the highest Isp and the highest "indicator" value).
The reason why the factor g was added is to have the same unit in the end, no matter you use the imperial units system, or the metric units system, so that avoided confusions.

In the end, you can simply reason by considering that a high efficiency engine will be more durable. It will also provide more speed from the same quantity of fuel.

Regarding Isp, you may also read that it's the duration during which one ton of fuel can produce 1 ton of thrust or something like that. This should be understood that way:
- Take an engine and feed it with 1 ton of fuel
- Adjust throttle so that the engine thrust is equal to 1 ton (9.8 kN)
- The engine will burn during (Isp) seconds before all fuel is exhausted.

Hope that helps :)